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[skejwen]

As in topic - it would be good to see some of small guns improved. Currently people tend to use only few of all variety of it (sniper/assault rifle).

My first thought about small guns that shotguns are totally crap with small damage and really short range (even smaller than throwing knifes, which is well... ridiculous).

So here goes my ideas for shotguns:
1. Longer range (even 15 hexes would make great difference for normal shotties).
2. Better ammunition, which is able to deal more damage and maybe some % chance for knocking down target.
3. New shot mode "two barrels at once" for shotgun and saved-off shotgun.

/skejwen

[Wallace]

Not a new idea - read some other topics

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Re: Big Guns nearfing (again ? yeah again)
« Reply #31 on: Yesterday at 02:13:21 pm »     

Once again i'll remind the idea of possibility for crafters to upgrade (not only) small guns as well as ammo

Every new tier of upgrades would require more skills (last tier would require 250 in a skill such as repair and 150 in small guns)

Also different parts/capabilities could be upgraded (rate of fire, range, damage, accuracy, accesories such as exp. mag. and so on)

Such weapons would require more and more, eighter time,skills and resources and would be harder to repair


If such thing were to be implemented then even if you'd see a bluesuit with Mauser you couldn't be sure if he just took it from some dead raider or been tinkering with it so much that is now some sort of a super cannon

Now to balance weapons usage just make small guns upgrades rather effortless in comparing with big guns (and energy weaps)
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I've also suggested other ammo for shotguns - flachettes dealing fire damage

[Nice_Boat]

Wouldn't the introduction of Fallout Tactics ammo types for shotguns solve the issue? I mean the inventory icons are basically there and the item on the ground could use the standard ammo box. That + upping the range would work fine.

P-90 could really use bonus rate of fire - aside from that I think it's fine.

Sniper Rifle is perfect - if it suffers from anything I think it'd be the critical hit table.

The biggest strength of small guns is their sheer versatility and easy access to ammo - given these traits they really shouldn't be made much more powerful.

Oh and I don't like the whole upgrade idea. There basically are 2 ways of doing it:
1) gamey stuff, which fails hard as it ruins the immersion.
2) going tacticool (you know, rails, optics, grenade launchers blah blah) - which doesn't really fit the post-apo fifties and would ruin the immersion too.

[Badger]

To me, the problem is that we only see about 5/6 small guns in use.

Remember needlers? 14mm pistols? Grease guns?

[Szef]

I use 14mm often. It's cool Grease is nice too. But.. why p90 don't use 9mm buggy ammo anymore? Tons of 9mm ammo lies under workbench.. Or maybe ammo could be dissasembled into gunpowder or something?

[Nice_Boat]

To me, the problem is that we only see about 5/6 small guns in use.

Remember needlers? 14mm pistols? Grease guns?

That's the case with most weapon cathegories in the game. I mean there's linear progression from "bad shit" through "mediocre stuff" up to "good shit". That way you get overrepresentation of low-tier guns with beginner characters and god-tier weapons with high levels. Things like Needlers and Plasma Pistols are next to useless for serious fighting and take too much time to craft to bother - so there's quite a number of them rotting in the tents and outposts, but hey're mostly used for kicks and giggles or hunting. I wouldn't say that's entirely bad though - that way be get our bread and butter standard issue equipment and a bit of exotics every now and then. It adds some variety by allowing people who want to stand out the choice to do so at the cost of a bit of effectiveness.

[Szef]

* Szef is wondering about new biggun 14mm autocannon using 14mm AP.. 

[Badger]

but hey're mostly used for kicks and giggles or hunting. I wouldn't say that's entirely bad though - that way be get our bread and butter standard issue equipment and a bit of exotics every now and then. It adds some variety by allowing people who want to stand out the choice to do so at the cost of a bit of effectiveness.

See, to me that's a problem. It leads to everyone using the exact same guns. Nobody uses pistols 'cause there's no point. Using guns like plasma pistols shouldn't be gimmicky, they should have their own justifiable bonuses. Like lower AP cost or the weapon penetration perk.

[Nice_Boat]

See, to me that's a problem. It leads to everyone using the exact same guns. Nobody uses pistols 'cause there's no point. Using guns like plasma pistols shouldn't be gimmicky, they should have their own justifiable bonuses. Like lower AP cost or the weapon penetration perk.

I do see people using .223 pistols for PvP from time to time. And there's a lot of guys using a variety of pistols to take out bluesuits and execute the wounded. Some do carry them as backup in case their hand gets crippled. I'd say they work more or less like they do in real-life - as a sidearm or last resort weapon

[Lexx]

10mm pistol makes the best sound. If this isn't an argument to use it, I don't know. :p

[Nice_Boat]

10mm pistol makes the best sound. If this isn't an argument to use it, I don't know. :p

Man, instakilling a dude with a Combat Armor while wearing the Mad Max jacket AND making the best sound is THE argument for it

[Badger]

10mm pistol makes the best sound. If this isn't an argument to use it, I don't know. :p

Oh man, back when I first played FO I used to take fast shot and just plug away at critters with the 10mm. Even though it wasn't efficient, it just felt so cool.

I do see people using .223 pistols for PvP from time to time. And there's a lot of guys using a variety of pistols to take out bluesuits and execute the wounded. Some do carry them as backup in case their hand gets crippled. I'd say they work more or less like they do in real-life - as a sidearm or last resort weapon

Yeah, but I'd rather they exist as a useful weapon class on their own. It'd make for a more interesting game. Rather than obvious upgrades, they should be their own niche and require a different combat style/character build. Pistols are really low AP, shotguns are super lethal up close (single OR burst fire), burst with smgs and assaults is upgraded to be useful at distances beyond point blank. I mean, it's crazy that the .223 isn't useful in FOnline. It's the best pistol in the game.

[Reconite]

Shotguns, SMGs and Pistols are all basically useless in PvP. Shotguns don't have AP shells, SMGs are too weak and Pistols are not rapid-fire. Then you look at Big Guns and you've got Miniguns with JHP and AP ammo, Rocket Launchers with Normal and AP Rockets and Flamers with Mk1 and Mk2 Fuel. Big Guns do not need to be nerfed, Small Guns need to be improved.

The Pancor Jackhammer was a beast of a weapon in Tactics and now you see it in FOnline, it's basically worthless. We need Fallout Tactics ammo types for Shotguns, at least.
- Slugs
- Flechette
- Rubber
- EMP
- 12 Gauge
This is why Small Guns rocked so much ass in Fallout Tactics, because of the amount of ammo types, they were balanced and had more variety than Big Guns and Energy Weapons. And Tactics had multiplayer mode, this should be enough to tell you something.

And if the devs are afraid of using Tactics graphics, it's as easy as recolouring this:

[Lexx]

Your recolor looks worse than the Fallout Tactics graphics.

As far as I know, in the moment are no plans in adding more variations in ammo to introduce more bugs.

[skejwen]

10mm pistol makes the best sound. If this isn't an argument to use it, I don't know. :p

you suck! bbgun has better!