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[Kobebeaver]

Annoyed that you get raped by a Big Gun Guy running next to you ? Well there is an easy solution.. give Weapons are efficency range from Good Medicore and Bad symbolysing RL Battle Conditions. A Guy with a Minigun should be rather useless against a guy in HtH-range. And a Shotgun and a Pistol should own a Big Gun-guy. On the other hand increase benefits using weapons the way they are intended to, like buff Big Guns on Medium range and reduce their strangeth depending on the way it inflicts damage..

I have thought about 2 systems : first one is a reducement of accuaracy as a soft restraint, against running up to someone using superiour firepower or a weapon which should not be used at close range( e.g. Gatling Gun) and a hard restraint which means the player wont be able to aim the other one at a certain range... i think in RT battle the first one is more viable but the negative effect has to be high enough that players survive a burst...

Edit
Nah not burst weapons especially just the really big ones.. it should symbolise that people can avoid or make it harder for people to wield such a large weapon at really close quarter( means HtH +2 Hex distance) i dont want to make burst weapons impossible to use just a bit less efficent. So Minigunners dont get into point blank shootrange and mow you down with 300 HP hits.. this would strengthen and balance SG/BG weapons a bit... not all BG should be viable in close combat... and a sniper shots should cost one more ap in close combat symbolising that it is a diffrent handling.. i want encourage people using diffrent weapons concerining close quarter fighting medium range fights and long range fighting so people dont just tend to use one gun for all ranges... would make pistols and flamers shotguns far more important to the current system

feel free to discuss
Feel Free to discuss

[RavenousRat]

You mean point blank burst will be impossible? Are you serious? Burst weapon created for low range, and you want weapon which created for low range be useless at low range?

[runboy93]

I just say no.
Why you want help them more?
Blank shots can be bad for shooter (if low combat lvls) or good for shooter (if got elite lvls)

[avv]

This could be done by implementing new perks for weapons.

I have thought about 2 systems : first one is a reducement of accuaracy as a soft restraint

Won't affect if skill is 300% but will hurt if it's less. Unless the accuracy modifier is constant. For example a big gunner would always have maximum of 40% accuracy in close range, except flamer. But then again players should be allowed to concentrate on certain direction by spending some action points, time and line of sight. I mean think about it: you got m60, you point it towards a door and and someone steps in. It's not possible that you will most likely miss him.

[Solar]

Why would bursting from a short range be worse? Your firing "cone" would just be smaller and you'd hit the same area with more bullets.

Rocket Launcher has an inbuilt system for this, in that you will hit yourself if they are too close

[Kobebeaver]

Nah not burst weapons especially just the really big ones.. it should symbolise that people can avoid or make it harder for people to wield such a large weapon at really close quarter( means HtH +2 Hex distance) i dont want to make burst weapons impossible to use just a bit less efficent. So Minigunners dont get into point blank shootrange and mow you down with 300 HP hits.. this would strengthen and balance SG/BG weapons a bit... not all BG should be viable in close combat... and a sniper shots should cost one more ap in close combat symbolising that it is a diffrent handling.. i want encourage people using diffrent weapons concerining close quarter fighting medium range fights and long range fighting so people dont just tend to use one gun for all ranges... would make pistols and flamers shotguns far more important to the current system

feel free to discuss

[avv]

Why would bursting from a short range be worse? Your firing "cone" would just be smaller and you'd hit the same area with more bullets.

Like Kobebeaver explained. In addition the weapon's length affects the speed which you can turn the gun. It might differ by tenths of second but that time can be matter of life and death in reality. In addition it's much easier to keep a light gun fixated at certain target for longer periods of time than a heavy one. Especially in urban warfare you might have to keep some window in your sights for 5 minutes or longer in case someone shows up.

Fonline or fallout didn't have these features and thus it became so that big guns dominated the close range.

[Kobebeaver]

Doing this is the only way to balance weapons inside of a weapon Category .. Especially SG because they are so vastly diffrent because atm people just use sniper and AR in medium tier and other SMGs of T3 when being able to wield em.. no one out of pure thinking would use a shotgunt although it damage should be devasting and easier handed in close combat than a full auto gun or a 50 to 100 bullet burst gun.. in game mechanic lots of weapons suck because there are not weapon effictivity ranges...

[avv]

Doing this is the only way to balance weapons inside of a weapon Category .. Especially SG because they are so vastly diffrent because atm people just use sniper and AR in medium tier and other SMGs of T3 when being able to wield em.. no one out of pure thinking would use a shotgunt although it damage should be devasting and easier handed in close combat than a full auto gun or a 50 to 100 bullet burst gun.. in game mechanic lots of weapons suck because there are not weapon effictivity ranges...

Once we have auto-shoot feature which I heard was in the making we could include some sort of reflex-ability. This means that pistols, smgs and shotguns have the best reflex-shoot in close range and thus fire fastest and most accurately when encountering an enemy in close range. Big guns would have the worst.

Besides burts-firing big guns should be moved more towards support and area control role so that you can fire short bursts in longer periods of time without reloading rather than shooting bigass damage chunks instantly.

[Solar]

The things you are talking about are much better represented by a "set-up" time before firing after moving. Though I don't really know if that'd be a fair thing to bring in - would make BGs very static.

[Kobebeaver]

i dont know if it is OT thats why i started a new thread but you can combine this idea with these 2:
As in my other thread i was talking about effectivity ranges of weapons making them viable. I have 2 ideas making battles far more strategic they can be combined or just used seperately, but synergy is best when using both ideas:

I d like to introduce a timer when running up the enemy which makes shots very inacurate even when having a very high skill  forcing players to stop gun running or running up blasting your head of from point blank range. this timer varies from gun to gun making diffrent guns useful in different situations.
Example1 : Player A has a MiniGun and is trying to get nearer to the opponent. He runs into his direction stops and then a timer starts e.g. 3 to 5 sec which reduces accuracy a lot so he has to settle down these 3 to 5 sec if he want to do a good shot or burst. Player B stood still and has no penality and can shoot with normal accuracy.

due to my browser i have to do a second post 
 
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Kobebeaver
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     Re: Balancing RT combat PVE and especially PvP
« Reply #1 on: Today at 01:59:30 pm »   

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My 2nd idea is to deny usage of some guns for 2-3 seconds when running a short distance... This should be applied to stop people from running up with inapropriate guns for HtH distance. These 2-3 seconds give the stationary player the time for a good aimed first strike and would just be a penality for weapons which are big and cloby...

Example: Player A has a Minigun again and he runs up the enemy to finish him of in one burst.. while running up a timer starts and he cant use the gun immidiatly, because it is too large being adjusted while running... the big guy still can finish of the sg guy but the sg guy eg gets a chance of first strike and can use the advantage of having handier guns...

These 2 ideas combined with distance of walking as calculator rather you cant use your gun or just with heavy penalities would balance big and small guns completely
 
 

[avv]

Though I don't really know if that'd be a fair thing to bring in - would make BGs very static.

This is how big weapons are handled. But they wouldn't be completely static, just the most static of the 3 gun types, except sniper. The way support gunner acts is that he secures an area with his overwhelming firerate and starts moving onwards once it looks safe or too bad to remain. Big guns would have restricted styles to play but that's because the skills are divided into big guns, small guns and energy weapons. Of course we could have big guns more designed for fast position changes but they would trade it off by dealing less damage, having smaller clip or smaller range. Flamer could be such weapon since you don't really have to aim with it in reality. You could also do aoe with flamer by firing it inside small to medium rooms and behind corners.

Example1 : Player A has a MiniGun and is trying to get nearer to the opponent. He runs into his direction stops and then a timer starts e.g. 3 to 5 sec which reduces accuracy a lot so he has to settle down these 3 to 5 sec if he want to do a good shot or burst. Player B stood still and has no penality and can shoot with normal accuracy.

It could be either accuracy or not being able to shoot. The point was who gets the first best shot. But 2-5 seconds is way too much and needless. It could be just tenths of second since we are going to get autoshoot anyway.

[Kobebeaver]

i really dislike the idea of autoshot, but thats just me ^^ anyway 2 seconds is not such a long time but makes a player being able to react even a casual one... the game is not an emergency where you are in state of high adrenaline like in a nearly happened car accident where you can react in tenth of a second thats why i think 2 seconds is perfectly alright...

[avv]

i really dislike the idea of autoshot, but thats just me ^^ anyway 2 seconds is not such a long time but makes a player being able to react even a casual one... the game is not an emergency where you are in state of high adrenaline like in a nearly happened car accident where you can react in tenth of a second thats why i think 2 seconds is perfectly alright...

Why two seconds or more is bad: a minigunner guy walks in a house where you are pointing a shotgun at his direction, sees you and just walks away. All that fits in 2 seconds if the minigunner just pays a little attention and has the typical mouse-control of a gamer.

[Kobebeaver]

okay thats a valid point, but i want to give to consider that most battles are fought in the open or where your scenario just will never apply..

i just want guns overall balanced and making them more useful.. all and not having 90 diffrent weapons where just 2 or 3 are used because the others are inferior and weapon range effectifity helps a lot, and the other 2 ideas need to be overthought...