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Poll

Do you like this idea?

Yes i like this idea.
- 8 (72.7%)
No, i dont like it.
- 2 (18.2%)
No, i dont like it, becase tatatata (avenger burst sound)
- 1 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 11


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Author Topic: Tandem weapons  (Read 1977 times)

Lordus

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Tandem weapons
« on: August 11, 2010, 09:53:55 pm »

 Hello wastelanders,
 maybe you noticed, that i made few (hehe) suggestions about weapons and PvP balance. Because i realize, that in eyes of GM, devs or other players, i look like some kind of bad Vedaras clone, i change my aproach of making suggestions (dont worry, i will be here until end of days).

 I dont want to create exact change you should apply, but give you some basic idea, that will enrich some part of Fonline. Because i am member of PvP gang, i wll put here suggestion about possible weapons balancing aproach.

 Introduction:

 As you know, i think that small guns class is very unbalanced. There exist one pure PvP usable weapon: Sniper rifle and one sneaker weapon: P90. This is too bad.

 One way how to balance this is to raise or low weapons attributes. The main problem and reason, why are small guns underpowered (except sniper rifle) is that BG bursting weapons need more ammo. I disagree with this idea, because if you compare survive ability of  characters with SG burst weapon and BG burst weapon in simulated combat, you will see, that you will need much more ammunition if you play SG burster than BG burste to kill each otherr, because SG burster will die more often and he will loose all his equip. But this is not topic i want to talk about. Yes, balancing effort in this way is too small (funny assault rifle tweak), but i hope that this way wll will continue in future.

 My idea of SG (but not only SG itself) balance is different:

 I can accept, that single one SG weapon is worst than BG burst or one shot sniper (like sniper rifle or laser rifle). But i suggest, lets make Weapon tandems.

 Weapon tandems? Whats that?

 Weapon tandem is kind of combat aproach. In PvP (but i hope it can be usable in PvE too), if you cleverly combine 2 weapons with different, but together helpfull abilities, you should be able to dominate over enemy equiped by more powerfull gun than single one from the weapon tandem pair.

 I will try to show you some examples:

 Shotgun - knockback perk + Needler pistol - weapon drop ability VS big gunner with 3 bursts and psycho and 250 HP:

 If you meet enemy BG i described before, you are dead. The way how to beat him is this: You will use needler pistol with ability of drop weapon from hand if you hit him into the hand and you will do critical damage. Enemy big gunner will drop the weapon, but he will not die, of course, because of his lives and resistance. Also this kind of disarming is very temporary, because he has enough AP to take his weapon back and kill you. In that moment, there is opportunity for second of Tandem weapons: Shotgun with knockback.. BG will try to take his weapon from ground, but he will be throwed few hexes away, so he will be unable to use his weapon, he will be disarmed and even he has 3 bursts, psycho and 250 HP, there is way how to eliminate him.

 I dont exactly know, if one person could have enough time to do it alone. But this will be great for cooperation with your teamate.

Why yes?:

* fresh air into the PvP (similar to adding sneak)
* elimination of power builds (if they are without adequate support)
* supporting of cooperation of players, not only multi PvP players
* more tactic in the PvP
* current PvP builds will stay as they are (no unpopular nerfing of big gunners)
* more weapons could be used in PvP or PvE (so 3D modelers work will have sense)
* minimal changes are required
* player (human) skill > char stats
 
Why not?:
- it will need time and support of developers
- it will need time to balance
- current PvP power builds will feel threaten because lost of their domination without nerfing them itself
- because Lordus created this suggestion


--------------
 Another possible tandems:

* Needler + Shotgun

*  Shotgun + P90

*  Flame thrower + frag grenades: frag grenades will knock down enemy and flame thrower would do not fatal damage, but constant damage during some time period, so you will be able to fire him and leave immediately.
 
* Dual assault rifles - instead of raising firepower, add them perk: victims AP are restored slowly (1/2 instead of 1/1, or 3/4  and cumulative with second assault rifle).
-----------------------
 I think that yoiu could invent any more tandems, but important is the idea, that guns should be balance intentionaly in this way.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 11:45:34 pm by Lordus »
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kraskish

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Re: Tandem weapons
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2010, 10:52:17 pm »

minigun + shotgun + needler pistol + sniper riffle + gattling laser  8)
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Re: Tandem weapons
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2010, 11:27:55 pm »

minigun + shotgun + needler pistol + sniper riffle + gattling laser  8)

pull that off and you should win a medel, due to all the skill points you'd have to spread around.

as for the main idea. i like it, however, the shotgun might work if it blew you back about a hex or two, but other than that, its not a bomb, it just knocks you down/back. in real life anyway.

but other wise i like it.

-Ulrek-
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Alvarez

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Re: Tandem weapons
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2010, 11:41:51 pm »

I think, it's a good idea and should be implemented disregard of nonexistant bias.

I mean, c'mon, the whole forum can't just concentrate all its disdain at you! Why?
By the way, i already use this tactic in lesser extent in PvE. Mantis are best squashed in groups with grenades and remains are shot by a Deagle from another slot, as well as human enemies.
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Lordus

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Re: Tandem weapons
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2010, 11:48:38 pm »

By the way, i already use this tactic in lesser extent in PvE. Mantis are best squashed in groups with grenades and remains are shot by a Deagle from another slot, as well as human enemies.

 Exactly, this systeam already exists, but nobody intentionaly develop this or at least described it. Example of another existing WT is Sniper (knockout) + BG Burster.
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LagMaster

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Re: Tandem weapons
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2010, 10:02:31 am »

this sistem allready exists,i thing, you can put 2 weapons in 2 active slots and use them separetly
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Lordus

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Re: Tandem weapons
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2010, 01:07:01 pm »

this sistem allready exists,i thing, you can put 2 weapons in 2 active slots and use them separetly

 Of course that you can have 2 guns in your 2 hands, but idea is different: Add special abilities that combination of 2 Tandem weapons will result that they will be able to eliminate player with more powerfull weapon. I dont know, if it is possible to make it by one player, because of animation of changing weapons takes some time. But at least 2 players with weapons can eliminate more powerfull powerbuild player with i.e. avenger.
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oldsly

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Re: Tandem weapons
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2010, 03:52:55 pm »

it is a delirium.
at meeting with a sniper I had 225 HP, he inflicted a small damage (6-15), but I not so and did not get up from earth to death.
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СЛОВО-ИСТИНЕ, ДУША-БОГУ, ДОЛГ-ОТЕЧЕСТВУ, СЕРДЦЕ-ЖЕНЩИНЕ, ЧЕСТЬ-НИКОМУ

Haraldx

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Re: Tandem weapons
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2010, 10:41:36 pm »

Needle pistol is good, you can easily shoot the weapon out of their hands and start pumping needles in his eyes - If you get lucky, he will get knocked out. You will have enough time to still shoot in the eyes, making high damage and having a chance of increasing the time of the PB being knocked out.
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LagMaster

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Re: Tandem weapons
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2010, 10:55:52 pm »

w8, you are sayng the sistem that wil be implemented in F:NV?(you will combine in crafting 2 or more weapons)
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Lordus

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Re: Tandem weapons
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2010, 10:59:20 pm »

w8, you are sayng the sistem that wil be implemented in F:NV?(you will combine in crafting 2 or more weapons)

 no, not combined super gun. only 2 basic guns, one in hand of one player, second in hands of another one, but their together cooperation should dominate over more stronger enemy, if they will use it smart
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Re: Tandem weapons
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2010, 09:43:57 am »

thats sound silly.     halfmeasures wont help here.

PB will dominate PvP until some ingame requirements for SPECIALs will be introdused that will make PB impossible (f.e. - 1 charisma makes u hated by ANY encounter and ANY city)

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JayDoom

Sius

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Re: Tandem weapons
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2010, 11:43:03 am »

thats sound silly.     halfmeasures wont help here.

PB will dominate PvP until some ingame requirements for SPECIALs will be introdused that will make PB impossible (f.e. - 1 charisma makes u hated by ANY encounter and ANY city)

Powerbuilds are NOT something bad. Why don't you people get it after 1 year of 2338 running. 90% of community still thinks that PB is something evil that must be stopped at all costs.

Its 2238 fault that community is divided into fighters and crafters. Every "normal" mmo is all about combat and crafting comes as something extra, while through fight/loot/quest the player grows and has his incomes. But 2238 does not offer any other way of obtaining equip than crafting. And if you want to make money you still have to farm materials or craft. So the main problem is that players are forced to choose. Either roll decent crafter and ignore combat since 4+ mantis are problem for your char OR choose fighter and have some fun in PvP but be prepared to be unprepared since you can't get items this way OR try some crafter-fighter combo that sucks at both. So some people choose their career and roll only one of these (mainly crafters/RPers) and stick to the safe grounds of South but imho majority of players simply bypass these crafting special/skill requirements with alts. They roll their main combat char and they supply him with crafter char.

Imho we should have another skillpoint pool for certain (noncombat) skills so we could build ANY char that we want and be able to choose ANY profession for it. Special and skills should determine only our success rates/quality of items etc. Simply our char should develop through gameplay. Creating these artificial requirements for professions that we can affect only at the beginning of the game is not working. Whole crafting system design seems to me like one giant mistake that only annoys majority of players and they take it as necessary evil. It has nothing to do with enjoyable crafting that we can experience elsewhere but it has great potential to change into something better.
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