Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[avv]

Personal cleverness?
Like what?
Line of sight of the victim?
You're not very clear.

It's not my fault the game lacks strategic elements to utilize. Line of sight is one element. Others are whether you think your victim knows you and is he a nub or not. Pretty much rest is dependent on how stationary your victim is and how much you got invested in your steal skill. Not very interesting or challenging. And most of the time stealing just goes like this: you walk next to someone and activate the skill on his char.

When it comes to pvp, was it stealing or fighting the key factor must always be players' minds. Chess is good example of good pvp. No random factors, just your and your enemy's mind. Throwing dice is bad pvp because it's reliant on luck. And if someone has balanced dices (steal 300) it's just not interesting at all.

[HertogJan]

Line of sight combined with detection rate could be an option.
Knowing is tagging red.
Stationary is already included, the attempt fails if your victim moves to another hex.

Pick pocketing has mostly to do with skill, the higher the skill the more likely you are to succeed.
There's always an element of luck involved as your victim might move, attempt to get something out of that pocket, etc.

As I said before, even with high steal skill you will regularly fail.

[Kira the 5th]

AutoPush seems like a good idea and a stealing player reaching into your paints and any neerby NPC yelling Playername is stealing from other Playername Am i right?



Oh and first post reply WOOT!

[HertogJan]

AutoPush seems like a good idea and a stealing player reaching into your paints and any neerby NPC yelling Playername is stealing from other Playername Am i right?

Oh and first post reply WOOT!

Guards already say that.

Welcome aboard.

[Michaelh139]

Guards already say that.

Welcome aboard.

Not all the time, half the time they just ignore it even if its a fail...  Unless its a bug.

[Rejfyl]

Ok, what about something like that:

Stealing animation disabled. Added possibility to temporary mark someone as a thief.

Scene1:
Thief is trying to steal something from player. He was succesful. No stealing animation, so victim realised that was robbed few seconds later. He don't know who was a thief.

Scene2:
Same like above but this time player is sure that there was only 1 player standing near to him so he know who is a thief but he cant do nothing about it at this time. But he know that he have to watch out that thief next time he meet him. So we move to ->

Scene3: Thief is trying to steal from his victim. He done this before, and he dont hide what he is planning to do. This time our clever player uses special tagging on that thief. We can imagine that as watching somebody. Thief is trying to steal something, but this time there is 100% chance that he will be cought.

Of course there are more scenarios, but i think it would work fine. And it will force some thieves to hide their plans or try to steal in crowdy area. What do you think about that?


(sorry for my english :-) )

[HertogJan]

Not all the time, half the time they just ignore it even if its a fail...  Unless its a bug.

There are 3 options when failing:
1. Guards notice it and say player name is interested in player name's belongings
2. Closest guard says you failed miserably
3. Victim gets a red line saying someone failed stealing from you (not mentioning a name)

There's also a situation where the thief gets noticed without anyone saying it, for instance stealing from an npc, but does lose protection.
This is only visible by keeping an eye on your character sheet.

Ok, what about something like that:

Stealing animation disabled. Added possibility to temporary mark someone as a thief.

Scene1:
Thief is trying to steal something from player. He was succesful. No stealing animation, so victim realised that was robbed few seconds later. He don't know who was a thief.

Scene2:
Same like above but this time player is sure that there was only 1 player standing near to him so he know who is a thief but he cant do nothing about it at this time. But he know that he have to watch out that thief next time he meet him. So we move to ->

Scene3: Thief is trying to steal from his victim. He done this before, and he dont hide what he is planning to do. This time our clever player uses special tagging on that thief. We can imagine that as watching somebody. Thief is trying to steal something, but this time there is 100% chance that he will be cought.

Of course there are more scenarios, but i think it would work fine. And it will force some thieves to hide their plans or try to steal in crowdy area. What do you think about that?


(sorry for my english :-) )

Scene 2/3:
Bad idea.
You don't have 100% on hitting someone, 100% on succesful stealing, 100% succes rate of evading encounters, etc.
100% chance to get caught for a thief is bull.
This will result in multiple thief accounts as thieves at some point will be marked too much.
Besides, I can't tag people as PK, I can't tag them as tent follower, I can't tag them for acting like complete assholes.
Why should thieves be different?

IMO thieving is fine the way it works, with 1 exception:
Thieving and FA animation are the same which makes it possible to keep harassing the same player over and over without knowing if it's a thieving attempt or FA.
There are a few solutions to this, best are a thieving cooldown of a 3 minutes or no FA animation when using FA on a person with full hp.

[Ganado]

IMO thieving is fine the way it works, with 1 exception:
Thieving and FA animation are the same which makes it possible to keep harassing the same player over and over without knowing if it's a thieving attempt or FA.
There are a few solutions to this, best are a thieving cooldown of a 3 minutes or no FA animation when using FA on a person with full hp.

Not 3 minutes. That would make thieves almost useless, and it should still be a game mechanic.

And they are using Science on you to check to see if you are paying attention, and then they use Steal on you
How about this: The steal animation could be (assuming we aren't going into 3d models "soon") the "picking something up" animation as an alternative, and if 3d is implemented, then it could be a one-handed animation instead of the normal two-handed ones.

[Rejfyl]

Scene 2/3:
Bad idea.
You don't have 100% on hitting someone, 100% on succesful stealing, 100% succes rate of evading encounters, etc.
100% chance to get caught for a thief is bull.
This will result in multiple thief accounts as thieves at some point will be marked too much.
Besides, I can't tag people as PK, I can't tag them as tent follower, I can't tag them for acting like complete assholes.
Why should thieves be different?

IMO thieving is fine the way it works, with 1 exception:
Thieving and FA animation are the same which makes it possible to keep harassing the same player over and over without knowing if it's a thieving attempt or FA.
There are a few solutions to this, best are a thieving cooldown of a 3 minutes or no FA animation when using FA on a person with full hp.

I would agree with you if this new tagging would be last forever (after some time character is marked by everyone, so player has to make another alt), but as i wrote above it would be a temporary marking. You could mark only 1 or 3 players at once and it will stay for,  lets say 15min. I don't know if its the best solution for this problem. I was just thinking about how to change current situation. Now you have to run away from thief, because you know who is a thief. On the otherhand thief has no chance to hide his plans, so its very easy to tell who is a thief.  

How about this: The steal animation could be (assuming we aren't going into 3d models "soon") the "picking something up" animation as an alternative, and if 3d is implemented, then it could be a one-handed animation instead of the normal two-handed ones.

In my opinion succesful stealing means that you get the item and nobody noticed it. So i would turn off animation.

[HertogJan]

Not 3 minutes. That would make thieves almost useless, and it should still be a game mechanic.

And they are using Science on you to check to see if you are paying attention, and then they use Steal on you
How about this: The steal animation could be (assuming we aren't going into 3d models "soon") the "picking something up" animation as an alternative, and if 3d is implemented, then it could be a one-handed animation instead of the normal two-handed ones.

My error.
I meant a 3 minute cooldown to steal from that same person again while keeping the 30 seconds cooldown to steal from someone else.

I would agree with you if this new tagging would be last forever (after some time character is marked by everyone, so player has to make another alt), but as i wrote above it would be a temporary marking. You could mark only 1 or 3 players at once and it will stay for,  lets say 15min. I don't know if its the best solution for this problem. I was just thinking about how to change current situation. Now you have to run away from thief, because you know who is a thief. On the otherhand thief has no chance to hide his plans, so its very easy to tell who is a thief.  
In my opinion succesful stealing means that you get the item and nobody noticed it. So i would turn off animation.

Still marking someone as thief means he'll get caught when trying to steal from you is insane.
Better way than to mark someone as thief (only 1 mark possible) which makes it impossible for that thief to steal from you (see autopush suggestion).
The mark should disappear after and x amount of time or when leaving the map before that timer runs out.

Succesful stealing would indeed mean no stealing animation.
Also turning towards your victim should be disabled when you have the pick pocket perk (level 15).

[avv]

Still marking someone as thief means he'll get caught when trying to steal from you is insane.

How come? You set him a trap and he falls in it. It's the same thing if you know someone is a thief, wait for him to come near you, put his hand in your pocket and then you grab his wrist it and slice his throat.

What needs to be done is to give thieves more chances to run away once they are caught. Making a plan b for failed attempts should always be the option for skilled thieves. Right now there's just 2 options: succeed or die.

[HertogJan]

How come? You set him a trap and he falls in it. It's the same thing if you know someone is a thief, wait for him to come near you, put his hand in your pocket and then you grab his wrist it and slice his throat.

What needs to be done is to give thieves more chances to run away once they are caught. Making a plan b for failed attempts should always be the option for skilled thieves. Right now there's just 2 options: succeed or die.

How would you know he's a thief if he never failed to steal from you before?
You don't.
Also the thief might just use something to draw your attention away and than steal from you.
You don't have eyes in your back now do you?

According to the wiki all that's taken into consideration now are pick pocket perk, steal skill and perception of the victim.
What should be added is agility, luck and intelligence and perhaps sneak from the thief's side and luck and intelligence from the victim's side.
Although I still believe it's fine the way it is now as high skilled thieves still fail regularly.

[avv]

How would you know he's a thief if he never failed to steal from you before?
You don't.
Also the thief might just use something to draw your attention away and than steal from you.
You don't have eyes in your back now do you?

Gut feeling. Experienced wastelander might recognize a thief just by looking at him. Experienced wastelander might also recognize the thief's confusing tricks.

According to the wiki all that's taken into consideration now are pick pocket perk, steal skill and perception of the victim.
What should be added is agility, luck and intelligence and perhaps sneak from the thief's side and luck and intelligence from the victim's side.
Although I still believe it's fine the way it is now as high skilled thieves still fail regularly.

The more rolls you add, the less control the players have and the worse it's going to get. Rolls work against npcs because they cannot be fooled like players.

It doesn't matter how high ones steal% is. It doesn't give players the right to succeed more often against other players. Investing points in steal skill doesn't take any knowledge, experience or personal cleverness so they don't deserve any major outcome from it either.

[DonGizmo]

Thief is more than char with enoufh steal skill. He needs to combine other skill and player skill to succeed. But he needs more opportunities, than he have now:

 http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=8436.0 This could be a great places for steal.

[smoothjesus]

How would you know he's a thief if he never failed to steal from you before?
You don't.
Also the thief might just use something to draw your attention away and than steal from you.
You don't have eyes in your back now do you?

Generally you know the thief at the market is the one who is very eager to stand next to you. Alternatively you can just watch for 2 minutes and you'll see them stealing from other people.

As for distractions, you'll have to think of those to stop yourself being tagged as a thief, I can think of several excuses to be standing next to someone right now, I'm sure people will think of more. A guy called Vegeta used a clever one on me a while ago trying to unarmed PK me.