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[Kilgore]

Since sneak skill was started to be used again, there is a problem involving "items from the ground disappearing", masses of sneak looters waiting on worldmap, so in case someone dies, he relogs to his sneaker to loot the shit out of the battlefield.

Sometimes you just see as stuff disappears from the ground, but you are unable to see or shoot the one who is picking it up. When they see you are closing by, they just run away. Even if you are able to see the guy for a moment, he can run past you and 3 hexes after that he's no longer visible. You try to catch him but it's too late.

So, sneak skill has become somehow stealing skill when it comes to take stuff away from the battlefield.

I suggest two possible solutions to this problem:

1. When you pick items from the ground or loot someone's corpse, your sneak is automatically deactivated. You can activate it again on normal conditions.

2. When you pick items from the ground or loot someone's corpse, there is made a check involving your Steal skill (for every item taken). If you succeed, your sneak is still on, but if you fail - your sneak is deactivated. There is no option for anyone to have super-high Sneak and super-high Steal skills at the same time, so if someone is planning to make 300 sneak 300 steal char, then.. well, yeah. Also, if someone wants to have sneaking thief, then he will be unable to make him a fighter (as a grenadier) too.

Before someone attacks me personally that I only use my dumb big gunner build, I would like to say that I have my sneak alt for at least 3 months and I was able to steal fuckloads of stuff on numerous occasions.

Also please don't post here about "BGs on sneak are unbalanced" or "sneak is overpowered" or some kind of such shit, this thread is only about looting and picking up items while sneaking. IMO sneak is balanced at the moment.

[eBay]

well, b/c preview was disabled during tc, sneak was brought back to life, gms or devs wanted people to use it for scouting purposes, we ended up with tons of sneak fighters and looters, a guy with 300 sneak and an avenger in hand, u think its not possible, u are wrong unless u are a crazy guy with 12 Perception. Fighters with lsws or avengers on jets shooting from 3 hexes are the last thing u are gonna see before the next respawn u can wear bh do whatever u want, the fighting ground retreating or starting a combat its all up to the sneaker, on top of that he can loot whatever he wants as Killgore said even if u see that stuff is disappearing u cannot do too much, he already see u if u go after him he will run away,
thats why im against changing drugs system, its gonna end up in the same way, u change something without thinking about other aspects of the game


well, there is one simple solution, anything inside the  inventory of the sneaker is enough to turn his sneak off, no more looting no more fighting, pure scouting

[gordulan]

at the moment, yes, sneak is a bit imbalanced, you have ghosts running around the battlefield taking whatever they want, there should be some form of restrictions to it, much as kilgore's first point, and maybe disable sneak while having a big gun in one of your active slots?

[kraskish]

at the moment, yes, sneak is a bit imbalanced, you have ghosts running around the battlefield taking whatever they want, there should be some form of restrictions to it, much as kilgore's first point, and maybe disable sneak while having a big gun in one of your active slots?

I thought carried items weight affects sneak skill? not? or was it just a suggestion?

[Izual]

1. When you pick items from the ground or loot someone's corpse, your sneak is automatically deactivated. You can activate it again on normal conditions.

Agreed (Wasn't there a thread about that already ? :|).

Also, if someone wants to have sneaking thief, then he will be unable to make him a fighter (as a grenadier) too.

So we'll be back to sneaky looters problem. Instead of tagging sneak+outdoorsman+guns, they'll tag sneak+steal+guns or something like that. I'm for first solution.

[Sius]

Add new feature to explosives. We should be able to shoot rockets and throw grenades WITHOUT target. F.e. enemy is hiding in the building near windows so I'll give him few plasma nades through the window and hit everything in range.

Same goes pretty much for any weapon. So lets say maybe through ALT/CTRL we would shift into "no-target-required" shooting mode, and when we click at some direction while holding ALT/CTRL, our avatar will simply shoot at that direction without aiming.

This will solve your thief problem not to mention it will make combat more tactical/flexible. Also I can imagine "fullout" shooting. Lets say that ALT will work as described above, while CTRL will work similar, but it will queue our commands and then execute them all at once. F.e. when i have minigun in my hands and I know, that there are enemies sneaking somewhere in front of me, then I'll press CTRL and while holding it I will click on 3 different hexes around my char and when I release the button the char will immediately start executing queued actions (in this case 3x burst). And if my APs are not enough to execute all queued actions, then they will go under 0 to negative values and then recharge at certain (slover/normal?) rate.

Damn I like this idea... I'll make a separate suggestion with graphics for it asap .

[oldsly]

Agreed (Wasn't there a thread about that already ? :|).
So we'll be back to sneaky looters problem. Instead of tagging sneak+outdoorsman+guns, they'll tag sneak+steal+guns or something like that. I'm for first solution.

there is the third method.
I think that the undeservedly forgotten sensor of motion will remedy balance.
I would like to see who shoots in me.
and yet...
to fire off is it needed to place a point into a breech-sight in the contour of purpose, this point is very small,is it possible to do this point on all breech-sight?

[Ned Logan]

Heh the motion sensor combined with the blind shooting feature Suis suggests could be interesting.
Anyway motion sensor would make PKing miners very easy, so I would not be too glad if it was in game.

[Tomowolf]

Somethink like in Fallout Tactics ? I like it !

[Roachor]

Sneaking being used to steal, what will they think of next? 

[Hololasima]

Solution number 1 is best.
Simple problem, simple solution

[Nice_Boat]

*forced fire suggestion*

I suggested this a long time ago. I also think it won't require any serious change to the code - basically, you could spawn an invisible critter on the target hex and execute fire as if the player was shooting at it. Needless to say, the critter would be deleted as soon as the round is out, so what players perceive is a dude shooting at the ground using normal targeting rules. It's more or less the same way early artillery scripts for OFP were done. And yeah, that'd solve the sneak-steal problem for good - and make hunting those guys pretty interesting. If we get forced fire, no nerfs of sneak are needed. But if we don't, I'd go with #2 of what Kilgore said.

[Sarakin]

Thumbs up for this suggestion, we need this asap. First one seems pretty easy to implement, but second one might be a better idea, so pure characters can still have an edge over regular sneak looters.
Also, its not possible to have 300/300 both sneak and steal, so you can consider having perfect sneak while having lower steal (excellent sneaker, but average stealer) or vice-versa.

[Sius]

Well sneak cap is now 330 thanks to ghost perk. But as for the stealing its kinda capped when you hit the pickpocket perk since without it you can steal only from blind people and with it you can steal even the Reno neon sign without people noticing that.

So imho stealing from the ground would be a problem since pretty much any thief is capable of taking anything they want even with 150-200 skill which is not that hard to get. Also what should be the fail formula? Who to check it with? Items are just lying there so it should be easier to steal them than from regular npc/pc = even less steal skill required = nothing solved...

Either make some magic so picking up a 10mm pistol will make insane amount of noise that will cancel your sneak or I dunno. Its not that cool solution imho.

[APOFISKO]

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