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[chenzo]

Its all about teaching new players, its easy to say "getting hides is easy" or "its not hard to level up" , but we have played fonline wipe after wipe and have built up such knowledge over time, and most of us are older and played Wasteland , Fallout and fallout 2 loads, so had a basic idea of what to expect in the wastes. But imagine if you've never played one of the good fallout games or Wasteland, never played a game with a system like the SPECIAL system.. Tis game would seem so daunting and unfriendly to players like that and it just puts them off playing. This games growing rapidly and new features are added often, which means players have to get to grips with more and more stuff.. If i was starting out playing Fonline at the stage it is now, i think id probably just get confused as fuck and quit straight away. Many players have noticed that something needs to be done to make Fonline more accommodating to new players, and many have tried to do player run programs that are aimed towards this goal. All player run efforts have failed so far due to a small number of players that dont seem to want new players joining there little world and i know of hundreds of players that have left because they just could not figure out the games basics and i also have several rl friends that wont even try the game because they have heard its a waste of time. The player base for this game is pretty sad really.. we get new players some times but only a few stay with us for longer then a week , most the long term players just want to kill bluesuits and rob people because they are bord of having to build stuff for themselves and anyone that does try and help players ends up being screwed over by a player that doesnt need help but just wants to make sure others cant get help either.

Izual said in an earlier reply

 I think newcomers should learn that the wasteland is a dangerous place. Then, they would learn the value of life and items they have. Just my two cents.

 but how is this possible when you just respawn after death ... there is no value of life in this game... just the value of items x boredom of other players

[Drakonis]

Well, the problem in Drakonis' idea is, that player will be forced to visit NCR through quest, and that will make him think that NCR is the "starter city" which is wrong. NCR isn't very safe

In my opinion the vault should be CLOSED! The people inside shouldn't know anything about the wasteland, except these few(NPCs with their story) who came from outside to live in the vault and now are teaching you by giving you quests. In one moment, some bad things are going to happen in the vault and you will be forced to leave it - look at Fallout 1 and 3.

Yes, there should be a way to gather resources so new players can learn how to craft stuff - but that should be some collapsed tunnel reachable from the vault or anything. Same with hunting.

The idea is that a new player doesn't know details about cities on wasteland, but when getting out of vault, someone should mark a few of them on the map, though there will be nothing like you visiting NCR before you got out of the Vault - that would discriminate other cities.

Dunno, well, not really, as I presented my vision there would be an option without tutorial.

Start as a vault citizen(+outcast)/tribal(+outcast)/someone with a memory loss.

hmm not sure if troll... but ah well

Just put HUB instead of NCR
Getting practical knowledge about the world after the tutorial? We have it now... just without the tutorial, where the player is right away thrown to a deep water- ready to drown.
Option without tutorial? Nah- its free exp and basic gear, everybody should do it, while it would work as a minor alt disencourage.- Making it not optional is a perfect solution imo. Only the people that are creating an alt(and are propably rich in hi mid tier stuff) will be wanting to skip the tutorial(SKIP SKIP- I WANNA START CRAFTING WITH MAH CRAFTER ALT GODDAMNIT, STEAL WITH STEAL ALT  ARGH)

[jonny rust]

love the idea... that's all

[Kilgore]

I am not sure how keeping players in a vault is a good idea; I think it will actually demotivate new players. For example you are a new player and you accumulate items and caps and then finally on reaching level 5 or what not, you exit the vault, and because of your virginity to the wasteland you run into an unprotected town (you probably would not know about town preview since you stayed in the vault), and rage quit because everything you worked for is lost. Right now, for new players death doesn't mean much, because they don't lose anything on their deaths.

Yes.

[Badger]

Of course they'll be disappointed the first time they die. But this time, they'll know enough about the game world and be high enough level to get back on their feet.

As it is now, they die and they'll get dumped on the other side of the map. I'm pretty sure that'll kill the motivation of new players. You're in the NCR, it has quests, a lot of other players, but OOP. You died. Welcome to Gecko.

Edit: Moved rest of post to more relevant thread.

[jonny rust]

The Vault stage is meant to ease players into the game which should include it's harsher sides. I agree that it is pointless if the vault learning curve serves no other purpose than to shelter the character from the outside world, but i think the idea is more to prepare them for it. So, since your trainers are all ex-wastelanders who know of its dangers and who have come here to get away from it, I would think that they would be training you for survival, giving you only what you need in order to surivive the waste.

as mentioned earning a level in a profesion is very useful in this way, teaching the character how to fish as opposed to giving them a fish they will loose as soon as they die for the first time in the waste. In this sense one really shouldnt gain many more possesions in the vault than one can in NCR already, after all, how much can the vault really afford to give away to begin with? but if the player has been taught to build and help themselves then loosing what they did emerge with wont be a huge issue as they already know they can reaccumulate everything on their own.

also they are not being kept in the vault, the original idea was that it would be optional from the get go and they can leave at anytime.

I and everyone else playing this game right now knows that the wasteland is a harsh place (much harsher than in the original game) and I for one would probably not be playing anymore if it wasnt for the help of the Wiki and my love of fallout which made me persistent to begin with. however while the Wiki is extremely useful i think that there can be a more organic way of being introduced to the new concepts of the game, through the game, instead of having to refer to a website continually.

[JustGreat]

Of course they'll be disappointed the first time they die. But this time, they'll know enough about the game world and be high enough level to get back on their feet.

I disagree, the most evident problems for a new player (at least it was for me), were: how does one avoid death from PKers and robberies from thieves, how to maximize experience from mobs/crafting and how to a make a proper build. None of these things could be learned in the vault because PKing/thieving are disabled and you are in a vault. Learning to mine and craft are extreme trivial matters, I mean how hard is it to use a hammer on rocks and press the fix button. In most MMOs I played I get really bored with the introduction quests, because they treat you like an individual with mental retardation.

[Badger]

I disagree, the most evident problems for a new player (at least it was for me), were:

But I'd point out that we both stuck with the game. I'm sure more didn't. It would be actually be worth finding out why players don't stick with the game more than anything.

What we think puts off new players is just conjecture. I don't know how we get a decent idea of why new players give up.

[JustGreat]

True, but creating an ideal "newbie zone", whatever it maybe be, would be, no doubt, starkly different than the wasteland. Instead if a newbie zone is created it should give the player a nice segue into the wasteland.