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[jonny rust]

the Karma system at the moment feels a little to one dimensional because while NPC's react to bad Karma PCs don't.

if someone is carrying around bad Karma I would like to know in the same way that NPC's know.

there for I suggest that it is possible to develop bad karma among Players;

every time someone marks you as evil it should incur a certain amount of bad karma among PC's
every time someone marks you as good it should gain you good Karma among PC's

it should be visible through and Aura;

as you start to slip further into the dark side your name will start to develop a red taint
getting darker and darker until it is full red and vice versa for good karma.

This way Karma (and marking people as good or evil) will have more of a universal importance and usefulness
and players will actually develop good or bad (or neutral) Karma among other players

[smoothjesus]

good idea, but if somebody didn't want negative PC karma they would get their friends and friends' alts to tag them as good.

It would work better if it was a 'player faction' that you lost reputation from if you stole from or initiated an attack on another player, unless it was a thief after a failed steal. Namecolorizer.txt could override the automatic name colours, so everyone in that still has the colours you gave them and every player not included in it gets a colour based on their PC faction reputation.

However I have no idea how you would increase reputation that way...

but you have a good idea

[Michaelh139]

Loving this idea, but you and your friends would have to find the guy first to red tag him and if it isn't in a gaurded town you'd prolly have to kill him to keep him still enough to tag him anything so it would be an OK system but it would need work yes?

[Swinglinered]

But how would they know?

[Michaelh139]

But how would they know?

What?

Elaborate, please .

[jonny rust]

I think if you have pissed enough people off your friends probably couldn't reverse your karma, however it is a loop hole and one that the system would have to live with.
after all your friends characters are people in this world and if they like you then that's X number of people who do like you.

however with this in mind the only way this system could work legitimately would be to put a cap on the number of times you can tag someone, otherwise it would get a bit rediculous

good idea, but if somebody didn't want negative PC karma they would get their friends and friends' alts to tag them as good.

It would work better if it was a 'player faction' that you lost reputation from if you stole from or initiated an attack on another player, unless it was a thief after a failed steal. Namecolorizer.txt could override the automatic name colours, so everyone in that still has the colours you gave them and every player not included in it gets a colour based on their PC faction reputation.

However I have no idea how you would increase reputation that way...

but you have a good idea

well thieves generally stay in one place long enough to be tagged, i have never had a problem doing that.

also PKer's eventually walk over to your body to collect the spoils at which point i have always been able to tag them

as for positive karma im sure people would be happy to receive it

Loving this idea, but you and your friends would have to find the guy first to red tag him and if it isn't in a gaurded town you'd prolly have to kill him to keep him still enough to tag him anything so it would be an OK system but it would need work yes?

[Gunduz]

Well, considering that there will have to be specific numbers, at least at the coding level, being flagged red could subtract 1 point from your karma/reputation, while being marked green could add half a point. While not completely foolproof, it would at least make it harder for friends and their alts to exploit this. Plus, it would make being a bad guy more negative to counteract the benefits of being a stone cold killer.

Also, maybe there could be an option after you get PK'd to set your killer as red in case you either couldn't see him or get to him in time to flag him. A text command or a dialogue box would both work for this.

[Nice_Boat]

There's already a wonderful karma system among players. It's called NameColorizing.txt and "remembering who wronged you and who was nice". Seriously, the only reason karma systems and whatnot get implemented in games is because the AI is too stupid to react to the way player carries on.

[Lexx]

We don't use karma, we only use reputation. Karma is there as some value, but it has no influence on anything.

[Metal Avalon]

We don't use karma, we only use reputation. Karma is there as some value, but it has no influence on anything.

Karma could influence what factions you could get into in later versions of the game, like you need evil karma to get into raider factions and Lawful good (because they think they're doing good and follow it like a law) to get into enclave, while Chaotic Good for brotherhood, and so on. It could also effect the outcome of quest rewards and how town's treat you, even if it's something as minor as how people talk to you. The funnest games have many details that have no effect on anyone.

[jonny rust]

We don't use karma, we only use reputation. Karma is there as some value, but it has no influence on anything.

that's exactly my point...

There's already a wonderful karma system among players. It's called NameColorizing.txt and "remembering who wronged you and who was nice". Seriously, the only reason karma systems and whatnot get implemented in games is because the AI is too stupid to react to the way player carries on.

that's not a karma system, that's between you and the guy who wronged you. its a vendetta. sure if you kill him back it could be called Karma in a sense

[Sius]

Karma or reputation or whatever it is is still badly executed ingame so it need some overhaul at first place. And as Boat said there is namecolorizing, which stands for your friend/foe list until it gets implemented right into the game. But for now it will have to be enough.

Anyway this would not work since the main idea is that players themselves would decide who is bad and who is good, but:
- when I PvP my enemies will mark me as bad, but in regular wasteland I'm not PK
- huge gangs have more members/alts = more votes to alter their karma to their liking
- people are not objective

Since FOnline does not have any natural friends or enemies (like Alliance and Horde in WoW), then everyone is potential enemy just like in Matrix. So get used to it, be smart, play smart, mark your enemies, share them with your friends and through this stay alive.

[jonny rust]

Karma or reputation or whatever it is is still badly executed ingame so it need some overhaul at first place. And as Boat said there is namecolorizing, which stands for your friend/foe list until it gets implemented right into the game. But for now it will have to be enough.

Anyway this would not work since the main idea is that players themselves would decide who is bad and who is good, but:
- when I PvP my enemies will mark me as bad, but in regular wasteland I'm not PK
- huge gangs have more members/alts = more votes to alter their karma to their liking
- people are not objective

Since FOnline does not have any natural friends or enemies (like Alliance and Horde in WoW), then everyone is potential enemy just like in Matrix. So get used to it, be smart, play smart, mark your enemies, share them with your friends and through this stay alive.

perhaps the way around all of this is to have one global reputation which players can influence by tagging you if they are unaffiliated with any PC faction.

if you are affiliated then the rep/karma that you aflict someonewith will only be seen by your faction (the person becomes a faction friend or foe) but the rep does not extend beyond that faction

also I realise that how you feel about someone needs to be a personal decision to  large extent and when I mark someone as evil as far as I'm concerned they are evil and global reputation would no longer come into it. However Reputation and Karma has always been a core element in fallout and now that there are multiple people playing and interacting with each other in the fallout universe this element should not be cheapened or only partially incorporated.