Other > Suggestions
Robot mercs (again 2)
Roachor:
--- Quote from: Winston Wolf on July 20, 2010, 08:39:46 am ---The game plays in a setting after a nuclear war. As Solar Sun said many times it just don't fits. Let's see where we can find robots in the game:
West Tek Research Facility aka. The Glow - a high tech base of the United States government
Mariposa Military Base - a high tech base of the United States government
Toxic Caves - a military warehouse
Sierra Army Depot - a storehouse of the United States government to defend the country
Navarro and Oil Rig - taken by the Enclanve, a militaristic organization
Let's compare that with us:
We are average wastelanders living in a cave or an old bunker. Thats far away from being a high tech militaristic organization like the Enclave.
--- End quote ---
Yup just average citizens walking around with miniguns and combat armour going to and from a vault bunker guarded by supermutants with plasma rifles. In an anarchistic world you are free to make anything you want of yourself and no one plays this game to rp a radiated bum scraping by. Limiting the game because something is too "cool" just insures the game will remain boring and bland. Also surf_solar is a GM, not a dev and his knowledge is about music. His opinion is worth about as much as anyone else's here.
Winston Wolf:
--- Quote from: Roachor on July 20, 2010, 09:05:31 am ---Yup just average citizens walking around with miniguns and combat armour going to and from a vault bunker guarded by supermutants with plasma rifles. In an anarchistic world you are free to make anything you want of yourself and no one plays this game to rp a radiated bum scraping by. Limiting the game because something is too "cool" just insures the game will remain boring and bland. Also surf_solar is a GM and his knowledge is about music, his opinion is worth about as much as anyone else's here.
--- End quote ---
That's what I said many many times. People get stuff like miniguns and Combat Armors way too easy. I don't really care if you just want to run around with your minigun and your robots slaughtering some bluesuits, I don't expect something else from an MDK member. But if I play a game where the level and the items mean something I want to be proud to have it. And I know that Surf Solar isn't a god or something like that, but his opinion means more to me than yours...
kraskish:
--- Quote from: Winston Wolf on July 20, 2010, 09:16:26 am ---That's what I said many many times. People get stuff like miniguns and Combat Armors way too easy. I don't really care if you just want to run around with your minigun and your robots slaughtering some bluesuits, I don't expect something else from an MDK member. But if I play a game where the level and the items mean something I want to be proud to have it. And I know that Surf Solar isn't a god or something like that, but his opinion means more to me than yours...
--- End quote ---
Well I suppose you felt with original fallout 1 or f2 quite bad since robots were there all around. What about mutants? There were less common to follow you and yet you have them. There was one place to see them (Broken Hills) but so is the Sierra Army Depot.
If you want to be so average wastelander how do you convince a mutant, who is stronger and 2x bigger than you to follow you. Anyway, according to fallout bible masters army was destroyed after fallout 1. Anyway Fallout 1 took place in 2161, where the chosen one destroyed the leader. After destroying him the chosen one stopped the HQ of spreading new mutants, because mutants cant breed. They can be only created by FEV infection and it is not until F2 when a scientist in Navarro drops the FEV into the water (if you choose so). So from 2161 they dont breed at all and until 2238 they should all be dead, whereas robots existed in F1 and F2 and there was no military guarding it.
If youre talking about any logic, please see above. There is evidence that robots should be even if not more common than mutants. FYI, robots are eternal, just the parts may corrode and stuff but they dont DIE. With so big amount of robots used in the Great War there should be plenty of them.
Another thing is, I dont really dont understand Winston Wolf, why do you want to reduce the game of its content? Robots are the only class/type of NPCs not implemented to the game. If its there in F1 and F2 why shouldnt it be used? I know youll cover all this robot idea is illogical... :/
The Great War happened in 2077 and were playing in 2238. Its almost 160 years AFTER.
I didnt want to start the discussion about moral aspects of introducing robots cause I thought I provided strong arguments in my first post. Nevertheless, Ill try to develop this in a way I planned FACEPALM
--- Quote from: Roachor on July 20, 2010, 08:39:31 am ---I think there should be a scientist profession that allows you to craft robot parts in order to create robot followers. All robots would require a living brain extracted from unconscious ai using the doc skill. For robodog you'd need dog brains and robot parts. Robobrains would have the skill stats of whatever ai you harvested the brain from but would be limited by its body (sg and ew pistols). First tier unarmed (Robodog), second tier pistols and 3rd tier rifles. This would also stimulate trade in leveled slaves(once it's fixed) for higher skill sets.
Robot parts would function just like any other craftable, 3 tiers of parts with increasingly expensive and rare components.
I agree with having a 10 int for 3 robot limit, as charisma is clearly a useless stat for anything but followers and int is the backbone of most character builds so cha should have the advantage. The high investment in science/doctors would stop it from being an addition to other builds and the stronger followers than slavery would make it viable for combat(possibly, still wouldn't be much competition for anything serious).
For the brain harvesting, I think the formula should be something like ai level*10 vs doc% with a roll for chance. The brain would require suspension in biomed jel tank(crafted) which would have to be carried by the player doing the extraction. This would make pure doctor characters useful in gathering without spamming the traders with brains.
Robodogs need to be nerfed and robobrains would need a stat increase for balance.
For those who say the game doesn't need or shouldn't have robots consider the following. Robots were mass produced and were common in american homes. Since they were mass produced they'd have modular parts and a scientific minded person would be able to figure out how to make them based on books and examining broken ones. You couldn't make a computer from scratch but any idiot can assemble one. As for it not fitting the fallout theme, it fits perfectly. The world was a futuristic 50's vision of the future when the bombs dropped, just because some people prefer to focus on the mad max settlers vs raiders aspect of the game and block out the 50's scifi like mutation from radiation or aliens doesn't mean it's "unfalloutish". If the enclave can make APA better than the scientists before the bombs fell then clearly all knowledge of robotics is not lost and robots are no more futuristic than laser pistols.
Also all the items like different brains are already in game since this was part of fallout 2 so it would be really easy to implement.
--- End quote ---
Hm, I guess crafting is more controversial, but why not. Id be something different from what you can get now, only for cash, I like it.
I remember NCR mechanic (where some guy went suicidal in F2) meaning that the person had enough skill to assemble it.
Ok, so going into crafting of the robots heres my idea:
robodog
--- Quote ---Cyberdog is a generic term for any dog that has been modified robotically. For some dogs, such as Robodog of NCR's Dr. Henry, the modifications are basically physical modifications, such as robotic enhancements to limbs. Others, such as K-9 of Navarro's Dr. Schreber, are more extensively modified, with enhancements to the brain and vocal organs allowing intelligence and speech.
--- End quote ---
* dog - buyable
* hydroprocessor motor (or whatever you got in SAD when constructing robo brain) - buyable
* water chip (looks like a processor hehe) - obtained like EP
Robobrain / Brain bot
--- Quote ---West Coast
Robobrains in California and neighboring states do not possess integrated weapon systems inside their frame. Rather, their flexible arms and organic processors were tailored to use regular firearms (such as rifles) in combat, something they are able to do with disturbing efficiency. Most pre-War robobrains (such as those in the Glow) carry sniper rifles and assault rifles, although units with City-Killer Combat Shotguns were also sighted.
[edit] East Coast
Robobrains are substantially more durable, accurate, and dangerous than the more commonly-encountered Protectron robot. Armed with a pair of integrated laser weapons roughly equal in power to a Laser Pistol, the Robobrain is a moderate threat, though easy to damage due to its size and extreme vulnerability to head shots. On the back of every Robobrain is a Combat Inhibitor which, if crippled, will cause the RoboBrain to frenzy, attacking everything indiscriminately.
--- End quote ---
* brain (division of brains llater)- obtained from killed NPCs
* hydroprocessor motor - buyable
* bio med gel - buyable as it is now
Brains
I guess being doctor lvl 2 or similar 90% of doctor would be required to obtain the skill to extract the brain from a killed humanoid. But to activate it in Fallout 2 one needed some amount of science as well. And division in fallout 2 was:
* abnormal brain <70% science (doesnt listen to commands, cant leave party unless killed)
* chimpanzee brain <90% science (listens to commands)
* human brain <120% science (listens + mediocre weapon skills)
* cybernetic brain >120% science (listens + good weapon (or even repair) skill + levels up)
Of course Im not a formula master but it should be a roll so that it is a lottery what brain you achieve. You activate brain holding it in inventory and speaking to the terminal you want to activate it.
Personally I think it should be based on your INT, rather than science because it will spawn alts. The chance of rescuing a brain should be low. Its like genetics, very hard to achieve some good result. So lets say once having a brains in your inventory a person speaks to the computer and selects one out of four brains to try to rescue
* (INT/2)*10 = %chance - abnormal brain (doesnt listen to commands, cant leave party unless killed)
* (INT/3)*10 = %chance - chimpanzee brain (listens to commands)
* (INT/5)*10 = %chance - human brain (listens + mediocre weapon skills)
* (INT/7)*10 = %chance - cybernetic brain (listens + good weapon (or even repair) skill + levels up)[/list]
Winston Wolf:
--- Quote ---Well I suppose you felt with original fallout 1 or f2 quite bad since robots were there all around.
--- End quote ---
Are there any other locations where you can find them which I didn't list above?
--- Quote ---What about mutants? There were less common to follow you and yet you have them. There was one place to see them (Broken Hills) but so is the Sierra Army Depot.
If you want to be so average wastelander how do you convince a mutant, who is stronger and 2x bigger than you to follow you. Anyway, according to fallout bible masters army was destroyed after fallout 1. Anyway Fallout 1 took place in 2161, where the chosen one destroyed the leader. After destroying him the chosen one stopped the HQ of spreading new mutants, because mutants cant breed. They can be only created by FEV infection and it is not until F2 when a scientist in Navarro drops the FEV into the water (if you choose so). So from 2161 dont breed at all and until 2238 they should all be dead, whereas robots existed in F1 and F2 and there was no military guarding it.
--- End quote ---
The NCR has about 700.000 citizens around 2240. Of course they can't display 700.000 NPCs in the game, thats why NCR doesn't look like a city with 700k people. The same with Broken Hills. There could be 1000, 2000 or even 5000 citizens. The master begins with his experiments at 2104 and makes them until 2162, that are 58 years. So I could imagine that there still are a few mutants out there. :)
--- Quote ---If youre talking about any logic, please see above. There is evidence that robots should be even if not more common than mutants. FYI, robots are eternal, just the parts may corrode and stuff but they dont DIE. With so big amount of robots used in the Great War there should be plenty of them.
--- End quote ---
Robots are a very complex piece of technology. They should be available for people with good knowledge of science, repair and a high intelligence. The problem is, that (thanks to alts) every idiot is going to have a robot and thats something I don't want to see. (You see N00BPWNZER and his robot army...)
--- Quote ---Another thing is, I dont really dont understand Winston Wolf, why do you want to reduce the game of its content? Robots are the only class/type of NPCs not implemented to the game. If its there in F1 and F2 why shouldnt it be used? I know youll cover all this robot idea is illogical... :/
--- End quote ---
I don't want to see them as mercs. I'd agree if you could get one robot by making a team quest, only available for chars with a high level. Thats something I could happily live with. :)
kraskish:
--- Quote from: Winston Wolf on July 20, 2010, 12:33:55 pm ---Are there any other locations where you can find them which I didn't list above?
--- End quote ---
I listed robot locations as well, which doesnt serve your argument well. It just proves there are places where robots should be, meaning they should be scavenged somewhere and traded by some dumb wastelanders who dont know what to do with them with people of higher intelligence like scientists from VC, NCR, SF etc
--- Quote from: Winston Wolf on July 20, 2010, 12:33:55 pm ---The NCR has about 700.000 citizens around 2240. Of course they can't display 700.000 NPCs in the game, thats why NCR doesn't look like a city with 700k people. The same with Broken Hills. There could be 1000, 2000 or even 5000 citizens. The master begins with his experiments at 2104 and makes them until 2162, that are 58 years. So I could imagine that there still are a few mutants out there. :)
--- End quote ---
Nope. Youre wrong. 700 000 is the population of the entire NCR state, enclosing Shady, Los Angeles, Maxson, Hub and Dayglow. The city itself (NCR as well) iis smaller.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/New_California_Republic
You didnt read. Mutants cant breed. Cant have children. After 60 years they are all dead. Yeah maybe master was preparing a lot of FEV but there was no command and intelligence was not the main advantage of mutants except the Master.
--- Quote from: Winston Wolf on July 20, 2010, 12:33:55 pm ---Robots are a very complex piece of technology. They should be available for people with good knowledge of science, repair and a high intelligence. The problem is, that (thanks to alts) every idiot is going to have a robot and thats something I don't want to see. (You see N00BPWNZER and his robot army...)
--- End quote ---
Yep, thats why there are vaults with pre-war knowledge and scientists. Nope, not really everyone. Based on your INT count up to 3 sharing your CHA (count as 1 cha per robot) wouldnt make any army. Also low retrieving brain chances would reserve the robots to a small group, like slaves. Or if they would be obtainable I dont see anything wrong with it, just like having a mutant who shouldnt live by now, but somehow lives and whats more you can have it shovelling shit for couple of days. Well thats really convincing
--- Quote from: Winston Wolf on July 20, 2010, 12:33:55 pm ---I don't want to see them as mercs. I'd agree if you could get one robot by making a team quest, only available for chars with a high level. Thats something I could happily live with. :)
--- End quote ---
Why high level? I suggested HtH robots or maybe a brainbot with a shotgun. Compare this with a mutant weilding a rocket launcher.
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