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[Haraldx]

Something the same just like for bursting, just the damage is dealt onto other critters (not only behind the one you targeted, but also the ones on the sides if they are far enough) and the damage is reduced. That should make the shotguns more popular in the game, and if it is possible - also add the ability for shotguns to do knock downs (even without critical)

[Michaelh139]

+1 +1

Both make perfect sense and would hopefully help balance them.

BUuuuuuu   Being knocked down by ANY bullet makes sense, the impact and pain would make you quiver and drop dead if you survived anyways.

[Ganado]

There was this really long thread already about boosting Shotgun mechanics that talked about Pancor comparisons, Solar's maths, knockdown perks, and a bunch of other stuff.

[Michaelh139]

There was this really long thread already about boosting Shotgun mechanics that talked about Pancor comparisons, Solar's maths, knockdown perks, and a bunch of other stuff.

But didn't it get locked?

[Izual]

It's knockback. And yeah, shotguns should spread.

[Nice_Boat]

Shotgun spread is a hollywood/computer game myth. In real life if it spreads enough to damage more than a man-sized target it's simply ineffective because of low velocity and not enough pellets striking a single target. Moreover, too much spread causes lower shock to the nervous system (which in the case of a buckshot is the primary cause of fatalities from shotgun hits) and should decrease raw damage in game terms. Yeah, you could follow the computer game logic and make them spread like in Doom, but with their current stats that wouldn't mean they'd become more useful for anything aside from PvE anyway.

The problem with shotguns is their laughable ammo stats and a curious lack of ammo selection. Since increasing ammo selection to what we have in FT seems to be out of the question for the devs, just like messing with their basic stats, why don't we change ammo stats? I've always thought that shotgun ammo was really a ball round with lack of DR/DA mods, why can't we raise DA to the highest level in game (like 3/1 or 2.5/1) while giving them DR 50 or something equally high (arbitrary values)? This would make shotguns insanely effective against unarmored folks while retaining their low effectiveness against people wearing metal armor and better. This could prove way more useful than spread while hunting brahmins or having a low-level shootout without making the game more gamey

[Haraldx]

Oh and another little thing - if you want to hit only 1 target with a shotgun (but hit him badly) make new ammunition - Slug rounds. slug rounds could be like for far range, while shotgun shells can be used for close range.

@Nice_Boat: shotguns actually have huge spread, especially for sawn-off shotguns and hunting shotguns. You might wanna say that hunting shotguns (the ones with double-barrel) don't have spread, but you are wrong, because mostly slug rounds are used instead of shells.

[Nice_Boat]

@Nice_Boat: shotguns actually have huge spread, especially for sawn-off shotguns and hunting shotguns. You might wanna say that hunting shotguns (the ones with double-barrel) don't have spread, but you are wrong, because mostly slug rounds are used instead of shells.

I'd agree as to sawn-offs to a degree. Hunting shotguns... well, it largely depends on the choke and the ammo used, but with the point of aim being roughly the middle of a human torso you'd easily close to 100% hits with 00 buckshot (and shooting humans with anything aside from 00 and slugs is not effective) at 50 meters, with 40 being the effective range of Mossberg 500 series with ~20 inch barrels. Of course at the most extreme distance you could miss at the center of the target's mass and have something like half of the pellets fly by, but it's really so marginal it's not even worth modeling in game, and if the spread becomes too large and not enough pellets hit, the damage drops considerably.

Of course you could say that people don't stand upright facing the enemy in a firefight and tend to drop their stance, use cover etc. but to model that you'd have to decrease the damage of a shotgun shot at more than half of its range or something like that. Effectively hitting more than one target with a single shot would be just a freak accident, imo.

As for slug rounds - they aren't really used that much aside from hunting big game, and I'd say they extend the range to about 100 meters and don't spread at all because they're single, solid projectiles. They essentially turn a shotgun into a half-assed rifle. Honestly, I've fired several shotguns with 00 buckshot rounds and the spread is simply waaaay overhyped in most games/movies. Actually, the only time it matters is when you're firing birdshot at pigeons or something like that, because 3 or 4 pellets are enough to ground the bird and you get quite a lot of them forming a neat 20x20 cm circular pattern at 60 meters or so, so it's way easier to hit.

As for knockback - there's no such thing. The target feels even less of a "knockback" than the shooter does, simple physics. Another movie thingie.

[Pozzo]

There should be a knockback effect only at 5 hex or less.

[KraftikBG]

Yes , get knockback at 6 to 50 hex will be too much sci-fi

[smoothjesus]

fallout was never about realism so i support anything that makes shotguns more useful, spread or more damage vs. unarmored sounds good. But knockback could easily be exploited by jet addicts in RT.

[Archaeon_dude]

D: Realism? In my soup?

YES PLEASE.

[Metal Avalon]

Shotgun spread is a hollywood/computer game myth. In real life if it spreads enough to damage more than a man-sized target it's simply ineffective because of low velocity and not enough pellets striking a single target. Moreover, too much spread causes lower shock to the nervous system (which in the case of a buckshot is the primary cause of fatalities from shotgun hits) and should decrease raw damage in game terms. Yeah, you could follow the computer game logic and make them spread like in Doom, but with their current stats that wouldn't mean they'd become more useful for anything aside from PvE anyway.

The problem with shotguns is their laughable ammo stats and a curious lack of ammo selection. Since increasing ammo selection to what we have in FT seems to be out of the question for the devs, just like messing with their basic stats, why don't we change ammo stats? I've always thought that shotgun ammo was really a ball round with lack of DR/DA mods, why can't we raise DA to the highest level in game (like 3/1 or 2.5/1) while giving them DR 50 or something equally high (arbitrary values)? This would make shotguns insanely effective against unarmored folks while retaining their low effectiveness against people wearing metal armor and better. This could prove way more useful than spread while hunting brahmins or having a low-level shootout without making the game more gamey

because games are perfect representations of real life, this is why we play them in order to escape real life.

[Nice_Boat]

because games are perfect representations of real life, this is why we play them in order to escape real life.

... and that's why we have dragons and elves in our Fallout. Anyway, different people like different degrees of realism, so I don't see anything wrong in mentioning this fact.

[gordulan]

well, we do have dwarves, orcs, and zombies in fallout... hey, i'm just putting it out there