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Author Topic: Any future Starcraft 2 players?  (Read 4502 times)

Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« on: June 27, 2010, 11:13:27 am »

As in the topic.

Starcraft 2 is finally going to be released and it's just one month left for us to wait!
Whos going to play? Also discuss any aspects of the game if you want :)

Go!
Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2010, 11:30:55 am »

Warcraft 3 forever (or until WC4 released), SC and SC2 is silly strategy, at least for me, I never liked quantity and always liked quality. It's almost the same as compare Heroes of Might and Magic and Disciples. In SC lots units, requires great macro control, units die like flies, just make lots zealots as tanks and then pack of dragoons, send zealots on "A", and with dragoons click righ mouse button on enemy unit - and it dies. Also you can always see clones of the same type unit in big quantity, almost every strategy has this problem... while at WC3 making one type unit can own only noob, because at WC each unit plays his role and has his strength and weakness, also it requires player to care about his units and see what enemy do. Melee has heavy armor, then make magic-damager vs them, ranged unit has piercing damage and medium armor, make melee vs them, casters unarmored - ranged or siege units. Also you'll never see stupid mass of one type unit, and if you'll see it, then you can easily counter it and masser usually lose hard.
NE vc Orc makes lots talons, making cyclone on them to temporary disable big units and has magic damage, good vs heavy armor, NE thinks he is smart, because he watched some replays vs orcs, but orc simply makes 4-6 catapults (one shot and every talon in it's AoE is dead 'cause of siege damage against casters), 2-3 raiders (ensnare against talon to prevent some of them to morph into raven form + siege type damage too), some trolls (not big unit, advantage against cyclone, 'cause possibility to make lots trolls) and 8-10 bats (suicide on talons in air if they turned into raven form), few seconds and talons are dead. NE says that orcs are imba, because silly NE makes only one type of units, orc's scout saw it and easily countered. SC don't have this, SC is focused on stupid massing units and then player's macro control allowing or not allowing to control all packs at different points on map, while micro control plays not so big role as at WC.

So, I'll wait till WC4 comes out, and probably will play it, as for SC, this is game for kids.
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Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2010, 11:50:50 am »

Well RaveneousRat I can see that you are strongly opposing the SC series, but as you mentioned that is your personal opinion. However as I played the whole Beta of SC2 I cant easily say that is way much different from SC:BW.
In no point of my first post I was comparing SC to WC3 and I'm not even trying to compare them because they are 2 different types of strategy game.

Quote
Melee has heavy armor, then make magic-damager vs them, ranged unit has piercing damage and medium armor, make melee vs them, casters unarmored - ranged or siege units.
Things like that are in SC2, and as I said above SC2 is way different from SC1. Please gain some elemental information about sc2 before you start calling it a game for kids.
I recommend you to visit http://www.gosugamers.net/

Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2010, 10:23:23 am »

I would have bought SC2 if i hadn't played the beta, considering how the have barely added anything its more of an expansion pack off of broodwar, graphics are improved a bit but for the main almost every unit is the same with each race getting a few new ones/wiping out some old ones.
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Nice_Boat

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Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2010, 05:42:46 pm »

...

So, I'll wait till WC4 comes out, and probably will play it, as for SC, this is game for kids.

I lol'd heartily. SC is way more popular on the progaming scene, and W3 couldn't even get close to what it was and still is in S. Korea, which is basically the gaming capital of the world when it comes to the RTS genre. Also, micro in SC is way more fun to watch, because it actually is dynamic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZNdaEM9SfI

This one occured spontaneously in a Korean proleague match. Can W3 even get close to something so entertaining to watch? Apparently not, given the ratings SC matches get in the Korean TV when compared to W3 ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3j5fUraMaQ&feature=related

Check out that Mutalisk micro at 4:54. But hey, it's all about sending masses of units on 'a', right?

The truth is SC pro-player's apm is about ~300, while in W3 it's about ~150 afair. This actually tells you a lot about the difference of skill needed to play both games. And yes, SC indeed is heavily based on macro and counters, but you still need to control your army well to be succesful. In W3 all you need to worry about is micro and good unit mix. And do take into account the fact that in StarCraft the action starts right off the bat, while in W3 the opening mostly consists of killing npc critters.

tl; dr version: StarCraft is THE superior RTS game. Not sure if SC2 can overthrow it and become the next definitive competitive RTS experience, but I'm sure it has a fair shot. W3 didn't ever have that.
Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2010, 05:48:12 pm »

I hope its better than that disaster warcraft 3, dawn of war was superior in every possible way.
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Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2010, 05:49:20 pm »

Starcraft was perfectly balanced. Starcraft 2 is the exact same game with shitty WoWesque graphics (but that's my own opinion) and new units and buildings, that can only make the game unbalanced, or at least can't make it as balanced as Starcraft 1. So I won't play it, as I'm against the whole "let's make a game series with each episode being worse than the previous one !" thing.
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Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2010, 06:15:11 pm »

This one occured spontaneously in a Korean proleague match. Can W3 even get close to something so entertaining to watch? Apparently not, given the ratings SC matches get in the Korean TV when compared to W3 ones.
Yes, I know that they like to play SC and own everone.
The truth is SC pro-player's apm is about ~300, while in W3 it's about ~150 afair. This actually tells you a lot about the difference of skill needed to play both games. And yes, SC indeed is heavily based on macro and counters, but you still need to control your army well to be succesful. In W3 all you need to worry about is micro and good unit mix. And do take into account the fact that in StarCraft the action starts right off the bat, while in W3 the opening mostly consists of killing npc critters.
Ahaha 150 - it's apm of a kid who just came from kindergarten and playing WC3 with one hand and with other hand scratches his and someome's else ass at the same time, 150 apm is 2.5 actions per second? You kidding? Well 300 apm is for WC, of couse koreans have even more, and don't laught at people with 150 apm, I bet my granny will have more. Yes, SC will have more apm, only because it playing these koreans with insnane crazy pressing buttons speed with apm over 400 or probably 500. 150 apm simply isn't enough, even if all your actions are right and you don't have miss click, too much clicks, same clicks, it'll not help you to take control, always focus right units, block and avoid hitting with units. In ideal you may not get any hit from an enemy, if he doesn't have ranged units, but it's possible only with 0 ping and insane apm, making it against creeps of couse easier, and even when I saw replay of some pro UD who creepled mine with some ghouls and every ghoul had ~10 HP after battle and noone died, I didn't understand why didn't he made creeps always run and start attacking animation, while ghoul can avoid it, so all can do ogres and just starting to hit and then interrupt thier attacking animation, but it's really hard, because there must be no other ghoul in attack range, or else attack will instantly redirect to him with same animation no needing to replay, of couse that guy got other fight with a player at the same time... but he was pro, he should do that ^_^. While is SC you really need to focus and take your units to cover/support when need and need to do it fast, yes TOTAL is requires more apm, but at normal WC your brain will require more work, than in SC.

Short version: Don't know about SC2, but you was talking about SC, and I can say that SC isn't so mega cool RTS, probably it is for koreans or someone, but not for everyone. Because you can see these insane korean fans, as once russian commentator for WC3 said "I don't know SC players, but you don't need to, if you see lots koreans with screams following someone destroying everything on thier path, then that guy is playing SC." Yes, it very VERY popular for them, but not over all world.
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Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2010, 06:37:57 pm »

...

I think that even during the WCG SC is consistently more popular than W3, and I know for sure such was the case in Poland each year. It's just that while W3 initially toppled SC with copies sold during the opening months, it just didn't stand the test of time so well and I daresay doesn't have so many diehard fans etc. in most countries. Of course everyone has the right to have his or her own personnal prefferences, but to question the fact that SC is balanced and requires well rounded skills or to call it a "kiddy game" is simply retarded, especially since a lot of top SC players have turned to professional poker and are doing pretty well there (there goes your "doesn't have a demanding mind game element" argument I guess), with Elky being the most obvious example. Never heard of W3 players going that way and achieving that much.

As far as the APM part goes - I was talking the whole-game average, not some occasional bursts of activity when you do a lot of things all at once. SC Korean pros are in the 300-400 range, and while I might've underestimated W3 average as my experience with that game is quite dated and I can't find a replay analyser that'd work with the current version, it's a fact that the game doesn't require you to be that fast and even for an average player the micromanagement part is comparatively less demanding (units have way more hp = you have more time to react).
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 06:40:51 pm by Nice_Boat »
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Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2010, 04:14:57 am »

I'm torn between SC2 and D3...

SC2 looks good aside from the graphics and how up-scaled it is with the mothership etc. etc.

But Diablo 3...  They took out the skilltree, grid inventory, and potions, and made it more like an action game.
Also the characters suck.

So it's a tough one.
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Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2010, 05:10:29 am »

I'm a hardcore Starcraft Fan (been playing it since i was 5-now [8.5 years later]) and I definitely at least want to try this one but from the demo vids it looked like any other rts game nowadays which makes me really sad, you can put 43765987469872346987236748265872465987248754 units on one hex like in Command and Conquer which is totally stupid although at least they denied tanks etc this....

While Starcraft one had hex on hex like in FOnline itself no more than one critter on each hex making it a slightly more tactical simulation.  Besides you had ALOT of ways to defeat the enemy, not just Spam something and win its just that was the simplest way and the most popular but I try to use ALL of my resources depending on the enemy's fortification and obvious type of play.

If they spam Zealots I spam alot of Turrets n shit then have a ghost nuke em if I manage to bottle em up with remaining forces (THANK YOU ONE HEX ONE CRITTER RULE)

If they spam dragoons I spam any kind of infantry really it doesn't matter they are support they aren't be zealots and they take up more space.

If they spam anything there is always a counter but you have to be fast efficient and use the bastards right.

You can slow the spam army by using the Zerg goo thing whatever you call it. (ensnare i believe)

But of course every race has its weaknesses so I can see why Protoss could easily beat Zerg and Why terran could easily beat protoss and why Zerg could easily beat Terran etc etc but in the end it does matter how tactically efficient you are.

(Btw you can always just cripple their industry by destroying all their miners/builders and destroying the Command Center Hive etc....  Easy Win :). )
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Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2010, 05:34:58 am »

If they spam Zealots I spam alot of Turrets n shit

Lol turrets can only attack air units.
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Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2010, 07:00:54 am »

Lol turrets can only attack air units.
...Turrets as in protoss cannons, bunkers (aka Marines shoot air), and sunken colonies for Zerg and bottle them up by putting ground units in the air transports and trapping them from other side.

But yes "Turrets" are good air defense except against those damn... shit what do you call them, its the to hit ground only Zerg air assault unit...  Can't remember but anyways...
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Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2010, 07:03:36 pm »

Had big big big (big) hopes for this, but after i tried beta... well.. i dunno anymore.
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Re: Any future Starcraft 2 players?
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2010, 07:12:21 pm »

...Turrets as in protoss cannons, bunkers (aka Marines shoot air), and sunken colonies for Zerg and bottle them up by putting ground units in the air transports and trapping them from other side.

But yes "Turrets" are good air defense except against those damn... shit what do you call them, its the to hit ground only Zerg air assault unit...  Can't remember but anyways...

Guardians.  They also pwn cannons and bunkers 'cause of their range.
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