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Poll

What do you think about adding vehicles from Fallout Tactics to FOnline?

It's good idea!
- 28 (70%)
I don't care because I'm noob
- 3 (7.5%)
I think it will totally destroy the game
- 9 (22.5%)

Total Members Voted: 38


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Author Topic: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill  (Read 11189 times)

dskpnk

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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2010, 11:09:41 pm »

it's a good idea but i think before ad more cars in the game it should be good that they become really useful !

http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=498.0

VOTE !
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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2010, 11:59:32 am »

I think the introduction of cars as they are in fallout tactics without tweaks would hugely unbalance PvP, since the big factions would be the first to have the heaviest/most armored veicles (who else has that kind of money?), fill them up with their best PKs and go on a 'killing spree drive by' in Modoc, but on the other hand I really like that idea, so let's try to make it work...

Problems:
One Hummer (for example) can transport 8 players, 7 of which can shoot out of the car while it is moving around town. As a bystander you don't know how many characters are in there, what weapons/armors are they using, you can't target shoot them in eyes/arms to hinder their ability to keep shooting at you, you can't attack them with melee attacks and the car can even invest you if you're not fast enough to get out of its way.
If you are in a gang fight PvP and an APC comes in you have to completely destroy the veicle before even seeing who are you being attacked by and start causing them any kind of damage and by then your side already lost half of it's fighters...
There must be penalities and/or greater risks when using veicles in combat to balance out these tactical advantages ...

Suggestions:
1. When a car is disabled (0 hp) while moving it stops and all people inside are all thrown out of it in the direction the car was going (as if they were knocked around by explosions) with a little damage. If it was standing still they just all disembark. Additionally cars should suffer from critical hits as creatures and catch fire or explode if disabled by criticals (causing even more damage to the people inside).

2. Cars can be repaired only when inactive (no driver inside), to avoid smart asses using mechanics inside the veicle to repair it while it's trolling around town wrecking havok...

3. You should need either a profession to learn to drive a car (brahmin caravans are for all without profession, maybe lvl 1 for buggy, hywayman and scout; lvl 2 for hummer and apc, lvl 3 for verbird/tank*) with Pe and In, repair and science or outdoor skills requirements, or alternatively switch gambling or speech skills for new driving skill as in fallout tactics.

4. Cars obviously should have a decent damage resistance and damage treshold, 0 armor class when steady, 10 Ac when moving, but also they should reduce the field of vision of the people in them (-1 Pe when steady, -2 Pe when moving) and give a penalty on ranged attacks made while the car is moving (you could also introduce some of Fallout tactics perks related to cars like, gunner and road warrior to mitigate these penalties).

5. Once you buy/craft a car you must choose a 'name' for it (whats written on the registration plates or painted on the hood (bonnet)) and that name should be visible on the top of the car (so basically treat a car like a 'construct critter' with it's own name) so people can kind of recognize different cars even if they don't know who's inside. Once examined by a player, the description of the car should say how many characters appear to be inside the car and how damaged it is. If you have Awareness perk you also see the Hp, Ac and upgrades on the car, but still can't identify it's passengers.

6. Maybe introduce in FO land mines (just add them to demo expert profession) to give factions without cars a chance to crate obstacles/mine fields on the main street of a town they are trying to take over, to counter incoming big faction apcs marching in killing everybody without a fighting chance.

7.* Make cars craftable/upgredable with new high requirement mechanic profession (In 8-9-10, science 80-120-180%, repair 110-150-190%) and insane ammount of resources. Cars could be crafted only in garages (like the one in new reno) and maybe the top level base (360k?). Fuel should also be entirely craftable.
Lvl 1 makes: brahmin caravan (2 tamed brahmins, 100 junk, 20 tubes, 30 metal parts, 12 alloys, 300 wood, 12 hours cooldown), and Buggy (250 junk, 50 tubes, 60 metal parts, 30 alloys, 50 wood, 15 brahmin hides, 20 fibers, 18 hours cooldown).
Lvl 2 makes: Scout (400 junk, 35 tubes, 120 metal parts, 60 alloys, 30 wood, 5 brahmin hides, 10 fibers, 24 hours cooldown), and Highwayman (600 junk, 30 tubes, 150 metal parts, 100 alloys, 40 wood, 20 brahmin hides, 20 fibers, 48 hours cooldown).
Lvl 3 makes: Hummer (1000 junk, 100 tubes, 500 metal parts, 200 alloys, 50 wood, 25 brahmin hides, 40 fibers, 72 hours cooldown), and Apc (1200 junk, 200 tubes, 1000 metal parts, 400 alloys, 100 wood, 40 brahmin hides, 50 fibers, 96 hours cooldown).
Note these are just sample figures I made up in 10 minutes, they have to be adjusted if it turns out to be too low/high...
Once bought or crafted cars could be upgraded and tweaked by professional mechanic of appropriate level; some upgrades could be Extra armor plates (extra dmg resistance but speed penalty), armored windows (extra armor class but Pe penalty for those inside), extra fuel tank (greater fuel capacity but also grater chance for the car to suffer critical hits), turbo charger (speed buff, but greater fuel consumption), mine sweeper (car suffers less damage from mines but has a speed penalty) ecc...
This whole point is to offer an alternative way to get/personalize cars, beside buying them for great ammounts of caps and also to give lvl 21 people something to do (I'm sure soon there would be player run car markets:)

So, these are my thoughts on the matter; I'd really like o see cars and some more professions in FO as it would give more RP options and add interesting tactical choices to Pvp.
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jodwig

  • I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong either
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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2010, 03:43:56 pm »


I think the introduction of cars as they are in fallout tactics without tweaks would hugely unbalance PvP, since the big factions would be the first to have the heaviest/most armored veicles (who else has that kind of money?), fill them up with their best PKs and go on a 'killing spree drive by' in Modoc, but on the other hand I really like that idea, so let's try to make it work...

Problems:
One Hummer (for example) can transport 8 players, 7 of which can shoot out of the car while it is moving around town. As a bystander you don't know how many characters are in there, what weapons/armors are they using, you can't target shoot them in eyes/arms to hinder their ability to keep shooting at you, you can't attack them with melee attacks and the car can even invest you if you're not fast enough to get out of its way.
If you are in a gang fight PvP and an APC comes in you have to completely destroy the veicle before even seeing who are you being attacked by and start causing them any kind of damage and by then your side already lost half of it's fighters...
There must be penalities and/or greater risks when using veicles in combat to balance out these tactical advantages ...

Suggestions:
1. When a car is disabled (0 hp) while moving it stops and all people inside are all thrown out of it in the direction the car was going (as if they were knocked around by explosions) with a little damage. If it was standing still they just all disembark. Additionally cars should suffer from critical hits as creatures and catch fire or explode if disabled by criticals (causing even more damage to the people inside).

2. Cars can be repaired only when inactive (no driver inside), to avoid smart asses using mechanics inside the veicle to repair it while it's trolling around town wrecking havok...

3. You should need either a profession to learn to drive a car (brahmin caravans are for all without profession, maybe lvl 1 for buggy, hywayman and scout; lvl 2 for hummer and apc, lvl 3 for verbird/tank*) with Pe and In, repair and science or outdoor skills requirements, or alternatively switch gambling or speech skills for new driving skill as in fallout tactics.

4. Cars obviously should have a decent damage resistance and damage treshold, 0 armor class when steady, 10 Ac when moving, but also they should reduce the field of vision of the people in them (-1 Pe when steady, -2 Pe when moving) and give a penalty on ranged attacks made while the car is moving (you could also introduce some of Fallout tactics perks related to cars like, gunner and road warrior to mitigate these penalties).

5. Once you buy/craft a car you must choose a 'name' for it (whats written on the registration plates or painted on the hood (bonnet)) and that name should be visible on the top of the car (so basically treat a car like a 'construct critter' with it's own name) so people can kind of recognize different cars even if they don't know who's inside. Once examined by a player, the description of the car should say how many characters appear to be inside the car and how damaged it is. If you have Awareness perk you also see the Hp, Ac and upgrades on the car, but still can't identify it's passengers.

6. Maybe introduce in FO land mines (just add them to demo expert profession) to give factions without cars a chance to crate obstacles/mine fields on the main street of a town they are trying to take over, to counter incoming big faction apcs marching in killing everybody without a fighting chance.

7.* Make cars craftable/upgredable with new high requirement mechanic profession (In 8-9-10, science 80-120-180%, repair 110-150-190%) and insane ammount of resources. Cars could be crafted only in garages (like the one in new reno) and maybe the top level base (360k?). Fuel should also be entirely craftable.
Lvl 1 makes: brahmin caravan (2 tamed brahmins, 100 junk, 20 tubes, 30 metal parts, 12 alloys, 300 wood, 12 hours cooldown), and Buggy (250 junk, 50 tubes, 60 metal parts, 30 alloys, 50 wood, 15 brahmin hides, 20 fibers, 18 hours cooldown).
Lvl 2 makes: Scout (400 junk, 35 tubes, 120 metal parts, 60 alloys, 30 wood, 5 brahmin hides, 10 fibers, 24 hours cooldown), and Highwayman (600 junk, 30 tubes, 150 metal parts, 100 alloys, 40 wood, 20 brahmin hides, 20 fibers, 48 hours cooldown).
Lvl 3 makes: Hummer (1000 junk, 100 tubes, 500 metal parts, 200 alloys, 50 wood, 25 brahmin hides, 40 fibers, 72 hours cooldown), and Apc (1200 junk, 200 tubes, 1000 metal parts, 400 alloys, 100 wood, 40 brahmin hides, 50 fibers, 96 hours cooldown).
Note these are just sample figures I made up in 10 minutes, they have to be adjusted if it turns out to be too low/high...
Once bought or crafted cars could be upgraded and tweaked by professional mechanic of appropriate level; some upgrades could be Extra armor plates (extra dmg resistance but speed penalty), armored windows (extra armor class but Pe penalty for those inside), extra fuel tank (greater fuel capacity but also grater chance for the car to suffer critical hits), turbo charger (speed buff, but greater fuel consumption), mine sweeper (car suffers less damage from mines but has a speed penalty) ecc...
This whole point is to offer an alternative way to get/personalize cars, beside buying them for great ammounts of caps and also to give lvl 21 people something to do (I'm sure soon there would be player run car markets:)

So, these are my thoughts on the matter; I'd really like o see cars and some more professions in FO as it would give more RP options and add interesting tactical choices to Pvp.



So hummer shouldn't transport more than let's say 4 people. People should be able to shoot at 1 direction from car. Driver can't shot, person near driver can shoot in cone only people at right side from car, same like as they shoot from windows at houses. When you shooting at the car, people inside should have chance to take some of the damage. When car is destroyed, people inside it should take major damage and be knocked down. Ye, you shouldn't be able to see or to shoot people inside until vehicle is destroyed. People shooting from car should have decreased accuracy and when car is moving the penalties should be even more, so snipers shouldn't be able to eye shot everyone around when sitting safely in the car.

2. Well, people could repair vehicles in combat, but without tool kit it shouldn't be so effective and even after repair they should have big timeout until they have really big repair skill.

3. If you add profession for vehicles then they should be craftable and giving Driving skill instead of speech is good idea as well. With profession you could be able to craft vehicles and you would need Driving skill to use vehicles like 80% for Buggy, 140% for Hummer etc. so not everyone would be able to drive vehicle (20 vehicles in Modoc? :S)

4.Yeah, better vehicle = better armor, it would make AP ammo more useful. As I said before, people in cars should have penalties to accuracy, range, AP per shot or something like that. Adding perks from FO Tactics is good idea imo.

5. Name of driver, his gang or car name should appear, but then people could call it "VSB Car" while being from other faction. Awareness should let you see about car's hp, number of passengers and maybe their guns.

6. Hmm, 100 mines near exit grind which will kill everyone who will try to enter/leave town? :D it would need more balance.

7. Don't you think it's a bit too many stuff to make 1 vehicle?:P Let's leave balancing craft prices to devs.
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Alvarez

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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2010, 05:47:58 pm »

The game engine should support steering radius mechanics.

I am absolutely unfamiliar with the code concerning movement in the game, but the car would be bound to certain movement patterns. And i don't know if movement patterns are codable. (4hexes SW is a condition to proceed 4hexes W to complete the turn)

And it cannot drive in South or North direction, except it uses shifting offset frames with according algorythm.

I can't say about the allowed maximal amount of sprites or multiple sprite assignation either.
Besides, FOnline uses hexes, Tactics use squares. So it will be a completely different driving system, which must be invented from scratch.


But hey, i'm just rambling.
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Lexx

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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2010, 05:56:52 pm »

I don't see moving cars in the game not even in far future. There is not enough room to really drive around, also it would be "abused" for lulz in towns, etc.
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jodwig

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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2010, 05:58:16 pm »

I don't see moving cars in the game not even in far future. There is not enough room to really drive around, also it would be "abused" for lulz in towns, etc.

You destroyed all my dreams with this post  :'(
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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2010, 06:19:43 pm »

it did cross my mind that most towns have tight entrances/gates or no room for cars to get around. I guess if  you really wanted to implement cars FO somebody would have to redraw most town maps to make wider streets (which in turn would mean a crap load of new map bugs all over the place) or add to each major town some new sectors/maps adapted to car driving/combat (the present 'pedestrian' districts would be off limit to cars) and maybe some new locations with car shows/destruction derby/nascar arena ecc... This might be easier to implement in game, but still something in the far off future (still keep the hope alive...:)
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Alvarez

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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2010, 08:52:28 pm »

...I don't see moving cars in the game not even in far future. There is not enough room to really drive around...

How about moving the wasteland around the car, then?

There isn't much scenery in the Wasteland and some ocassional rock, cactus or road marking could shoot past as a projectile sprite. Blurred map tiles could be suggesting speed.
The car frame then just (compared to amount of frames in Tactics) need wheel spinning animation and some vibration with sound. Should the vehicle be destroyed, the frame disappears, creating a sprite of a wreck, shooting to the upper map corner.
Already by using the frame of a Highwayman instead of regular player sprites, you could be able to "accelerate", "brake" or "steer" around the map.

A random road encounter. A crew of a Hummvee shoot some raiders chasing them with buggies...

edit: Lexx, i merely suggest it. Suggestions are for being considerated by developers and implement, IF desired.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 09:08:42 pm by Alvarez »
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Lexx

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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2010, 08:54:07 pm »

"Just" is always good. Adding real drivable cars would require a lot work and changes / additions to the engine. We can't do this in the moment, because we are too busy with other engine related stuff.

Keep in mind, only one person is really working directly on the engine.
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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2010, 08:55:30 pm »

as I know, new profession isn't possible to add. But there is nice possibilities for quests etc. Cars in FOnline shouldn't be buyable (maybe only from other players), but must be craftable - and only by some NPC's :
Mechanic: give me 40 metal parts, 80 electronic parts, some steel, wood then I can make car for You for 20k
also cars should be more balanced, like Cockroach for example should be available for single player without big problem - but it have very small trunk, ride good only on flat terrain or on some roads, it needs repair very often, etc. Big armored car - should be available only for gangs, and should need much much bigger amount of parts, also repairs should be expensive and in many cases available only in service (new reno?).

Also to get driveable cars work, whole engine need to be rewritten, what is little crazy to do, especially when such cars dont match Fallout 1/2 world.
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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2010, 09:10:11 pm »

Yeah, the great-great-great-grandson of Davin Postner does that with his gigantic sailcart, but i haven't encountered him yet. The raiders perhaps did.


No, really, there are locations in the sea, like isles near LA or the Enclave Oil Rig... Perhaps someone want to add some locations like submarines, underwater Vaults, stranded warships...

I also heard that the isles are reachable with a vertibird.

Yeah, and then they expand the map to the west and make it in a Waterworld-style :D.

Sorry, I simply couldn't resist.
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jodwig

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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2010, 12:31:56 am »

"Just" is always good. Adding real drivable cars would require a lot work and changes / additions to the engine. We can't do this in the moment, because we are too busy with other engine related stuff.

Keep in mind, only one person is really working directly on the engine.

Ok, so we are waiting :D
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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2010, 01:27:53 am »

To be honest I like the boat idea, maybe a craftable canoe that allows you to travel over water. Island bases like a lighthouse would be sweet.
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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2010, 04:48:52 am »

Well heres another paradoxical argument.. Look bottom line is this, the game is non cannon. they have already stated this, so it seems kinda weird to me they dont just keep running with it, they pretty much only change something when it suits their needs. 1 word, cathedral. anyways, jodwig i refuse to vote in your poll for one simple fact, you degrade people that dont want to vote for your idea by calling them a noob.. its unfortunate so many people use this word because its almost like calling me a honky or a jew a kike, you get the idea. Try growing up and dont buy into leet speak and crap like that, it only makes you look ignorant, seriously when people type lol to me i lose all respect i had.
wow, somebody is sensitive ^^ (no offense lol)
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Alvarez

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Re: Tanks/Cars from Fallout Tactics in game + driving skill
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2010, 01:06:42 pm »

I think the poll must be edited and options added.

Just being for/being insulted a noob/being strictly against is not enough to choose. And insulting people just because they're not interested would contradict the idea of the poll. It's about free choice of opinions and you wanted to know them, jodwig.

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