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[zuhardu]

So, i spent the last two weeks around Geko mine. I meet all kinds of PKs there, the noob ones, the many ones (also stupidest), the pro ones and the invincible ones. I've got a really good build, i tried a over a dozen chars before i reach this build. Even thou i am a sniper, i faced a lot of close combat chars and won, helped by experince and a very good build.

Every player with some experience at this game knows the sneaky grenade guys in the Geko mine wich are almost imposible to kill. No matter what build you use, you can't take those guys. I also talked with a few friends and they agreed. Sneak is overpowered. BG and throwing guys that use it, are almost invincible. So i understand they could sneak a few hexes to a 7-8 PE biggunner, but i am a sniper, a 10 PE. Nobody should get so close of a sniper, it's ridiculous. I have 10 PE and can shoot those guys only near me. A sniper is a character that should have the best view of the battle, not equal with a 4 PE unarmed character.

So, i suggest that the snipers could use a perk or improve PE so they could spot sneaked chars earlier than others. Like i said, it should be imposible to sneak near a facing sniper. We have no chance against those characters. If so, we will all do the sneaky grenade build and get it over with. Even so, adding a perk for spotting would greatlly weak our sniper builds.

Sorry for my english and enjoy the game. Cheers!

[Michaelh139]

I actually have to agree such builds are practicially invincible also but they're somewhat rare in comparison to powerbuilds, due to their extra difficulty in levelling such a build.

[zuhardu]

Come on, if you have friends or a faction you know there is no character hard to level. I've got a friend's doctor to lvl 10 near Necropolis just by knocking down ghouls and let him kill them, so no, this cannot be a good reason for those builds to exist.

[Roachor]

if you have a problem with it make a sneak build, it's that simple. Not to mention you hit that guy once his sneak is broken until he gets out of los.

[avv]

if you have a problem with it make a sneak build, it's that simple. Not to mention you hit that guy once his sneak is broken until he gets out of los.

Zuhardu just said he spent last two weeks in gecko mines fighting against other pks so he should know what he's talking about. Instead of going along with current settings we should also understand to question whether the current settings are alright. Imagine if zuhardu wasn't powerbuilt sniper but armorer-fighter. How's that armorer is supposed to find skillpoints for good sneak, 180 repair and weapon skill?

[Solar]

Sounds more a problem with AP 2 Grens than sneak to me.

[vedaras]

i will repeat what i repeat all the time, sneak is not combat skill in first place, its combat avoiding not combat profiting skill, just remove sneak if you have weapon in any of 2 slots.

[Michaelh139]

i will repeat what i repeat all the time, sneak is not combat skill in first place, its combat avoiding not combat profiting skill, just remove sneak if you have weapon in any of 2 slots.

You are wrong Vedaras.  You....  are.... wrong....

[Roachor]

Zuhardu just said he spent last two weeks in gecko mines fighting against other pks so he should know what he's talking about. Instead of going along with current settings we should also understand to question whether the current settings are alright. Imagine if zuhardu wasn't powerbuilt sniper but armorer-fighter. How's that armorer is supposed to find skillpoints for good sneak, 180 repair and weapon skill?

not possible

[zuhardu]

Roachor, i don't want to ofend you but you just don't seem to get it. This is not about my problem with sneak, is about game balance and the lack of logic. In no other game or in real life, a guy runing towards a facing sniper on a open field with a grenade or a 30 kg minigun could be the sniper nemessis. If u have 10 PE it should be imposible not to see the guy in 35-40 meters running towards you in open field.

And about the creating the sneak based char, it's a bad ideea. That's what i said. We could all do that build, but what would then be the pleasure of playing if we all would use that build?

LE: And it's clear that you have no ideea what i am talking about. You do not have the time to kill those guys. Ap for throwing are few, the battle finishes before i even have the time to aim. 4 plasma grenades = 4 seconds. spoting grenardier, aiming, shooting = 3-4 seconds. You maybe shoot once, and that's all, you are dead. Plus, grenades knock you down most of the time...

[Roachor]

without sneak grenade builds would never get close enough to work, and the amount of skill points required to get good sneak means using pretty much all of a 10 int builds points with very little left over. Snipers are long range support, of course they get owned by close range assault.

[zuhardu]

without sneak grenade builds would never get close enough to work, and the amount of skill points required to get good sneak means using pretty much all of a 10 int builds points with very little left over. Snipers are long range support, of course they get owned by close range assault.

LOL! You mean, it makes sense? Of course close range assault would own long range in close combat, but how could someone run at a facing sniper without being spoted? Explain that with your good logic! Like i said, sneak could and should be very effective against a 7-8 maybe 9 PE character, but not against a 10 PE sniper facing the attacker.

Anyway, i am just saying, this could not be right. The sneaked characters have no enemy. Every build should have a weak spot and those guys have none. 

[Roachor]

LOL! You mean, it makes sense? Of course close range assault would own long range in close combat, but how could someone run at a facing sniper without being spoted? Explain that with your good logic! Like i said, sneak could and should be very effective against a 7-8 maybe 9 PE character, but not against a 10 PE sniper facing the attacker.

Anyway, i am just saying, this could not be right. The sneaked characters have no enemy. Every build should have a weak spot and those guys have none. 

Sneak builds require 2 perks and almost all your skill points to sneak leaving little for other skills. One shot breaks your sneak and then you're a sitting duck. Maybe you shouldn't be in the mines alone.

[Nice_Boat]

Sounds more a problem with AP 2 Grens than sneak to me.

What. Frigging. Problem.

Seriously, there's no ranged combat skill as useless as throwing - and you see a problem with the fact that it's 2AP/grenade? Solar, what the hell?

As for the original post - that's just a load of BS. Sneak has been nerfed. It's just incredibly shitty these days and all it allows you to do is stalking bunches of people sitting in the desert from 20 hexes or so. If you didn't find a way of dealing with sneakers using a 10 PE powerbuild you really should work on your fighting skills or make a better char. Furthermore Plasma Nades are useless against CA. Frag nades are useless against anything. Wear a Combat Armor and you kill them with a sniper rifle. Easily. Yeah, sniper rifle in a mine > grenades in a mine. Oh, and it has over 3 times better reach. If anything, Plasma Grenades should cause knockdown again, at least they'd become somewhat usable. Not to mention that mines are quite specific locations and they force close quarters - I'd think that being a sneaky bastard with a bursting weapon or a grenade bundle would help in such circumstances, no?

LOL! You mean, it makes sense? Of course close range assault would own long range in close combat, but how could someone run at a facing sniper without being spoted? Explain that with your good logic! Like i said, sneak could and should be very effective against a 7-8 maybe 9 PE character, but not against a 10 PE sniper facing the attacker.

God, I read the rest of this thread and I raged again. OF COURSE IT MAKES SENSE. Especially since the best you can do against a 10 PE sniper is 330 - 75 = 255 = 8 hex spotting range. And a 330 sneak build is so extreme you're bound to miss a few times. And when it comes to the actual range - it makes as much sense as max player vision range being close to 60 hex and weapon range being 50 hex. It makes more sense if you multiply it by 10 when converting to meters. Probably more like 20. Or accepting it's just a game and some shit is arbitrary.

Anyway, i am just saying, this could not be right. The sneaked characters have no enemy. Every build should have a weak spot and those guys have none. 

Yeah, they're so powerful nobody uses them in TC battles anymore The fact of the game is they get killed even in grenade range by any unsurprised BG powerbuild and any critbuild that gets a knockout on them. Knockouts are common. Sneakers have no luck and eat a lot of criticals. Do I need to explain more?

Actually, the only thing a sneakbuild does well (but no longer excells at) is fighting 1v1 against people with weak armor. That's pretty niche and fitting a scout/skirmisher theme, don't you think?

[zuhardu]

Seriously, there's no ranged combat skill as useless as throwing

Just by saying this stupid thing you prove you have not read what i've said until now and that you have no ideea what you are talking about, so you really do not deserve an answer.

Still:

Not to mention that mines are quite specific locations and they force close quarters

Again, you prove you are just a lonley troll who doesn't read. I said Geko mine, i has A LOT of open space! Ever been there? Did you even fought those guys that i was talking about? I bet you haven't.

8 hexes is enough when you don't know where the enemy will apear, he's runing and you still have to aim a body part. like i said, and you haven't read
 just like a proud troll, they make 240 dmg to a character with 195 hp and 10 toughness in 3-4 seconds. so, no, you can use any buid you want still it's not good enough.

Coming with a CA to a mine is again one of the stupidest thing i ever heard. Only if you want to lose it you would go alone in Geko mine with a CA and a sniper. Trolling again.

I really haven't intended to ofend anybody, i was just telling my opinion about sneak vs 10 PE, but I really can't wach how a agresive troll tells about me that what i wrote is BS when he proofs he has no ideea about what is talking. Thanks the others for their polite answers.  

LE: now i've seen the signature, forget i said something, you are just an angry and lonley teenager...