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[Admiral Zombie]

In advance: I'm working off of my knowledge, what the fonline wiki says, and what the fallout wiki says. I am sorry for any bad information, and please do not hesitate to correct my mistakes. This is a work in progress more than anything.


As it is now there are several perks which are always chosen, and several that are always ignored. In the interest of more varied builds I was hoping we could update perks. I've looked through a handful of threads, but for the most part the suggestions given have been on a single perk. I'm hoping to cover multiple perks with this post. For the most part I will ignore perks that add to skills, as I'm not sure how to address these. I will mainly address combat related perks, and leave out perks such as scout, pathfinder, etc. as I do not know what to do with these, as I imagine there are some PvE only players who enjoy/use them, and that fonline isn't necessarily all about player versus player.

This is what I have so far, i'll add more in a separate post later


Useless perks in real time, some use in turn based

Cautious Nature
Current: +3 to PE when determining placement in encounters
Additions
* +3 PE to view range when using town preview, (capable of seeing through objects?)
* Possibly give real time view during town preview (I believe it currently takes a "snapshot" of sorts, and doesn't update until you take a 2nd look)
* Should the +3 go beyond the 10PE limit?

Earlier Sequence
Current: +2 to Sequence, 3 ranks
Uncertain
As far as I know sequence is useless in real time. The primary suggestions i can think of would be to change how sequence figures into real time
* Possibly having having sequence effect the battle timer, having it allow someone escape more easily to the worldmap if they are under fire


Faster Healing
Current: +2 to Healing Rate, 3 ranks
Overhaul
* Reduction of the weakness timer
* If players could inflict poison/radiation on each other then maybe this would somehow heal that faster. (Unlikely since that would require a 2nd implementation)


Bonus Move
Current: +2 AP to total AP for movement, 2 ranks
Additions:
--This is sort of a separate idea, but would give bonus move a use, and give HtH a chance in real time
---From what I currently understand, if you walk while in real time, then your AP regeneration will stop until you stand still. If you run, it will stop regenerating until you stand still. I would suggest if a player is running then they're AP will actually drain over time. (I would think people with 0ap can still run, debatable). Walking remains the same in that it neither drains, but you do not gain AP over time
--- Rank1 of bonus movement will change the above so that while running you do not lose AP, and while walking you slowly gain AP (slower than if you stand still)
--- Rank2 of bonus movement will change the above so that while running you slowly gain AP, and while walking you gain AP as fast as if you were standing still.
--- If the AP change to running/walking is not implemented, then the ranks could at the very least allow bonus AP regeneration while moving




Limited or very low current usefulness

Heave Ho!
Current: +2 ST when determining throwing range, 3 ranks
Prenote: The strength bonus will not exceed the weapon's maximum range. Maximum range for grenades is 15, which requires 5st to achieve (range is ST * 3) I do not see why there are 3 ranks. Plasma grenades require 4ST, Frag 3ST. Even if you only have 3ST, with 1 rank of this perk you have enough ST to have maximum range
Overhaul:
* +1(2?)st for determining throwing range, (2-3) ranks. May exceed weapon's maximum throwing range.
---If someone has 5st, and gains 3 ranks, then they would potentially have a range of 15base range, + 9 for a total of 21 range.
---In the interest of balance I will mention with the right build grenades have an AP cost of 2 (fast shot + brof, i've tested and can verify) The ability to spam grenades so easily should be taken into consideration. I don't know with certainty how well grenades compare to rockets in the ability to knock down for extended periods of time


EDIT: As it is now AC doesn't have much use considering so many people get an obscene amount of weapon%. I don't know for certain how much these next 2 perks will actually effect chance to hit, but I figured they would add quite a lot. In retrospect I probably shouldn't use the term AC since that is something that will be the same for all people attacking me, but the idea is if i'm farther away from someone shooting at me then i will have a higher chance to dodge that attack.

Dodger
Current: +5 to AC
Overhaul:
* +1 AC for every (1-3, i suggest 2)hexagon away from your target
* Possibly additional AC for when you're moving in real time

HtH Evade
Current: Additional bonus to AC at the end of turn
Prenote: from what I've heard this is completely broken, and does nothing at the moment
Overhaul:Multiple possibilities here
* AC has double the effect when you are holding no items in either slot
* Possibly additional AC for when you're moving in real time (if this isn't used for dodger)
* Inverse version of dodge, the closer to your target the more AC you have (not necessarily AC, could simply have increased chance to miss for that person)


Demolition Expert
current:Extra damage and no failures with explosives[
prenote: From what I understand this simply adds 10 more damage for timed explosives (dynamite and plastic explosives) and the time you set is always exact.
Overhaul:
* explosives (rockets, frag/plasma grenades, molotovs) get +10 damage
* Bullets users have +2 per bullet, hth can get a +2 per hit, a general damage is available of +5 to living things, why not give explosives something similar?
* Possibly having it so that weapons that have a chance to explode and harm you will never do so (they will simply critically fail and drop to the ground or something

[Admiral Zombie]

reserving a post to edit at a later date.

[Gunduz]

Cautious Nature: I think the extra range on town preview is reasonable and makes perfect sense with this perk. Real time preview IMO is adding a bit too much. Not really sure how I feel about PE going past 10.

Earlier Sequence: Yes. I still don't see many people taking this perk.

Faster Healing: Yeah maybe a 5-10% reduction in weakening for each level of the perk. And I think keeping the healing rate increase would be fine because it's impossible to abuse and is a nice passive bonus. The first rank would just have a healing rate and weakening bonus. #2 could shorten the time it takes to heal poison, and #3 could give you a very slow radiation healing.

Bonus Move: Many people have expressed concern with regaining AP while running. I think half rate for the first rank and full for the second rank while walking would be a reasonable option.

Heave Ho: I think throwing should first be redone so that your ST determines the max range of throwing items. It's not like a gun where the construction of the gun determines the distance. Throwing should be redone to (4+(2*(ST-1)) and then this perk would be able to add an additional 12 to your range, leaving you with a max of 34 hexes.

Dodger: Sounds good, but there has to be a limit. I don't know how far, but if you had this and max PE you could hit some people when they could see you, but you would have a 95% AC.

HtH Evade: Yeah atm, you get no AC bonus. That needs to be fixed, and then this could add more. For real time, your idea works well. I don't see why a guy with empty hands couldn't maneuver better than a guy with a sniper rifle.

[Admiral Zombie]

Yeah considering the usefulness of some other perks I figured the faster healing would be a 50% drop in weakness. Thats nice, but really thats simply reducing it by 4 minutes, and you still have 4 minutes to go. A second level in it would lower it by only 2 minutes, and you still have the options of stims anyways. I think the faster healing suggestion is a good start, but still won't be picked up that often.

Cautious Nature: the real time thing is something I would agree with, that it is highly questionable. The higher than 10PE won't be much of a problem considering most people have around 6-8 i think, but should be considered. I'm just curious about seeing through objects for town preview, it would definitely make it worth consideration where as otherwise it is highly uncertain. Most people build themselves for once they're in battle, not for the battle pregame.



I can see problems with regeneration while walking/running, but remember that this is 2 perks, people would have to give up their beloved toughness x2. Then again they could simply choose not to pickup action boy x2, since they would regenerate more AP while running. But at least then it becomes a tossup, rather than the simple "definitely action boy"


Strength already determines your throwing range, you simply have a maximum throwing range (if you have 4strength, you can only throw 12hexes, if you have 5 strength, you can throw 15. if you have 6ST, you can only throw 15 still.) I personally am fine with that, you just gotta play more strategically than if you were using a gun, but there are definite benefits to rockets that you get with grenades that compensate for the shorter range (i think, it might not be worth it, still testing that kind of stuff out)

Dodger/HtH evade: I'm still uncertain how much it would help.

Here are the modifiers for determining chance to hit (I believe these are fairly accurate, i might be mistaken)

1.   AC of target, modified by weapon and ammo AC modifiers: 1 AC = -1% to-hit
2.   Target distance, -4% per hex.
3.   Basic distance modifier, +(PE-2)*8%
4.   Long range weapon, +(PE-2)*16%
5.   Scoped weapon, +(PE-2)*20%, but if target is within 8 hexes, -32%
6.   Accurate weapon(including shotguns), +(PE-2)*20%
7.   Sharpshooter perk, +8%
8.   One hander trait, +20% for one-handed weapons, -40% for two-handed
9.   Insufficient strength to carry weapon*, -20% per lacking strength point
10. Eye damage, -25%
11. Eye damage special distance modifier, -12% per hex (instead of -4)
11. Target is lying down, +40%
12. Eye aimed shot, -60%
13. Head aimed shot, -40%
14. Groin aimed shot, -30%
15. Arms aimed shot, -30%
16. Legs aimed shot, -20%

Melee and unarmed attack special modifiers:
1. All aimed shot modifies are /2.



So at the VERY MOST you'll have 35AC (10Agility = 10 AC, Combat armor MK2 gives 25AC)

thats only -35% chance to hit. This is negated by simply having 35% more weapon skill. If anything simply having AC give -2% chance to hit rather than -1% would be a good start to making AC make a difference. If that then becomes a problem for PvE, then make a separate formula for shooting players, where AC makes a bigger difference.

[gordulan]

actually, accurate is only a +20 CTH with that weapon

[FischiPiSti]

Dodger
Current: +5 to AC
Overhaul:
* +1 AC for every (1-3, i suggest 2)hexagon away from your target
* Possibly additional AC for when you're moving in real time

Did you thought this over? You cant target people in FOnline. You shoot someone at 20 hex, you gain 20 AC for example. But what about the other opponent next to you? Besides, calculating hit chance works just like that, the farther away, the more "AC" you get. Its just that AC is a global value having an effect on everybody whos targeting you. No, dodger has other issues.
Dodger is one of 3 primary defensive perks. Dodger, toughness, and lifegiver. Toughness has the same effect from lvl3 to lvl 21. That 5/10 DR is worth the same at all levels. There are armor bypassing crits and itemperks, but its still one of the best perks in the game. Lifegiver is also great, because over time - gaining levels, the gained HP makes the perk have the same value at lvl12-21.
However, if you choose dodger at lvl 9, you get +5 AC. You opponent has +5% miss chance but gain just one more level, and that +5 AC will most likely turns useless.
To fix this, i suggest to have an effect similar to lifegiver, add +AC for each level gained. Each level i increase my tagged combat skill by 4%. So to keep it balanced, i would say +4 AC/level would be just fine.
Example: You choose dodger at lvl 9. Encounter another player lvl 9, SG. He has 80% hit chance(without dodger that would be 84). Doesnt matter who wins. Over time, both of you gain 1 level each, you have +8 AC bonus by then, he puts 4 points in SG(2 because its most likely tagged). He will still have 80% hit chance. lvl9-21 that would be a total of 48 bonus AC. If its too much, then even +2 AC/level would be better then an instant +5. 12*2 would be +24 AC.

[vedaras]

some are really interesting by the way :>

[Ombra]

Rework on perks it's a long-date suggestion, obviously I agree, even if many others need reworks or different changes from that you've suggested.

Dodger
Current: +5 to AC
Overhaul:
* +1 AC for every (1-3, i suggest 2)hexagon away from your target
* Possibly additional AC for when you're moving in real time

Nope, I think it must add AC depending on how near you're to target or it's another cons for HtH players...

[Drakonis]

Rework on perks it's a long-date suggestion, obviously I agree, even if many others need reworks or different changes from that you've suggested.

Nope, I think it must add AC depending on how near you're to target or it's another cons for HtH players...

hth players would have hth evade(reworked of course). If dodger and hth evade would stack at maximum for meelers it could get really overpowered

[gordulan]

hey, we have guns, let them have superpowers

[Drakonis]

hey, we have guns, let them have superpowers

 you mean like "try to hit me with you 10% chance for success" superpower ?

[gordulan]

yes, will make it balanced in the comparison of minigunner builds, you have a 10% chance to hit the bastard with your minigun, which will end in him dying.

[Admiral Zombie]

Did you thought this over? You cant target people in FOnline. You shoot someone at 20 hex, you gain 20 AC for example. But what about the other opponent next to you? Besides, calculating hit chance works just like that, the farther away, the more "AC" you get. Its just that AC is a global value having an effect on everybody whos targeting you. No, dodger has other issues.
Dodger is one of 3 primary defensive perks. Dodger, toughness, and lifegiver. Toughness has the same effect from lvl3 to lvl 21. That 5/10 DR is worth the same at all levels. There are armor bypassing crits and itemperks, but its still one of the best perks in the game. Lifegiver is also great, because over time - gaining levels, the gained HP makes the perk have the same value at lvl12-21.
However, if you choose dodger at lvl 9, you get +5 AC. You opponent has +5% miss chance but gain just one more level, and that +5 AC will most likely turns useless.
To fix this, i suggest to have an effect similar to lifegiver, add +AC for each level gained. Each level i increase my tagged combat skill by 4%. So to keep it balanced, i would say +4 AC/level would be just fine.
Example: You choose dodger at lvl 9. Encounter another player lvl 9, SG. He has 80% hit chance(without dodger that would be 84). Doesnt matter who wins. Over time, both of you gain 1 level each, you have +8 AC bonus by then, he puts 4 points in SG(2 because its most likely tagged). He will still have 80% hit chance. lvl9-21 that would be a total of 48 bonus AC. If its too much, then even +2 AC/level would be better then an instant +5. 12*2 would be +24 AC.

As I gave a note, AC is not the correct term. Currently the farther you are from a target the harder it is to hit you. The spirit of the idea is to simply make it even harder, if it gives -4% i believe for each spot, then it would give -5% or -6%


The idea of gaining additional AC per level is a really good idea actually, however I would suggest bumping it up to level 12 requirement. Otherwise people will always grab it at level 9, and then grab lifegiver. I like the idea of making people make a hard choice, rather than clearcut choices. BTW your idea of 4 per level would mean when you grab it at 9 you'll have ~44 additional AC by the time you reach level 21. Thats a pretty big amount. I don't know if thats enough to be significant, or if it will be too much (hard to say considering some people get obscenely high weapon%)


The biggest thing i fear however is that it will simply promote people being pure combat classes and making a crafting alt. If its harder to hit people then they will simply raise their weapon% more and not pick up the crafting classes. Many do this already, but ideas that increase AC will simply promote more people doing this. This might be inevitable, but its something that should be considered.

Rework on perks it's a long-date suggestion, obviously I agree, even if many others need reworks or different changes from that you've suggested.

Nope, I think it must add AC depending on how near you're to target or it's another cons for HtH players...

Its only a con in that hth can't get the +5 base AC bonus, unless theres something i'm not seeing. If anything its a bonus to hth as they are much more durable as they rush up to their target. Once they're pointblank it won't help the HtH character much, but if the target has the perk then the perk won't help them very much against hth.

hth players would have hth evade(reworked of course). If dodger and hth evade would stack at maximum for meelers it could get really overpowered

It would be a very powerful combo, but remember this

If its the double AC thing then when the HtH inevitably gets closer to attack you, then he has lost all of the AC bonus (or lost the -% chance bonus, however oyu want to see it) Thats when he would be most vulnerable, when he's about to strike

If its the inverse ability then he simply has a higher AC at all times




But yeah, several of these ideas specifically had HtH in mind, and trying to give them a better chance. To me HtH characters are tanks for the most part, or at least give them the ability to reach their target half alive.