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[Ombra]

I don't want to bring up the same annoying concept of "wasteland is harsh" but you must remember that Fallout (and FOnline as well) is a post-nuclear world when death, mutation and suffer rules.

Many of users message complain about thief and kamikaze and killer and so on, I think you people want a city which is a damn fortress where you can craft and barter without care of anything, you can also leave the characters for 1 hour, come back and found him exactly like he was when you left.

Well, I think that's not the FOnline world. You must expect danger in every angle, you can't be safe at all (but you are, in 2 places: your tent and world map without move).

So, thief is good as it is.

[JovankaB]

nah i dont agree with you. If thief would have 5 minutes cooldown for example, player who comes to trade could walk away when thief is trying to rob him, and then trade when thief is on cooldown. Now its impossible to avoid thief for trader, since one thief could terrorize all players comming to same npc trader because of very low cooldown, and its not right for sure.

I agree with Vedaras, stealing timeout should be much longer (at least 3 minutes), not only because it prevents people from doing tasks like trading and talking to NPCs, but especially because right now it's waaay to easy to level up a thief. Farming XP using steal and 1 cap is what I call lame mechanics, not timeouts. Anyway, IMHO stealing should be totally reworked, the penalties, the timeouts, how XP is computed (it's very stupid right now and basicly encourages XP farming using bots), pickpocket perk (which maybe was OK for a single player game but overpowered in MMORPG) and finally some PvE jobs for thieves.

[Sarakin]

I agree with both JovankaB and vedaras, steal should have bigger timeout, but on the other hand, you should be more successful while doing so

[kraskish]

1) You don't understand, one guy SMGing you, you both die, other (friend of guy who bursted you) picking up your items.
1a) I killed (EDIT: oh noes, I didn't kill him, guards crit me instantly, so I insta-killed him only to 0 HP) innocent at NCR only once (don't include bombing), but that moron didn't want to answer on my messages, that I want to buy all ammo he have, he didn't even said "Get off" or something, just ignored.
2) You don't need to stay in gruop, you trading with NPC, another bluesuiter comes near, don't doing any actions behind you, so you don't expect him as a thief, and he's not a thief really, he simply going close to Sha Enin and then setting dynamite on 1 second and then Boom, Sha Enin and everyone who was standing near him are dead.
3) No, I don't talk about YOU encounter THEM. I talking about THEY found YOU. Your outdoorsman won't help you.
4) The same as 2th, while you bartering at NCR, everything can happend, you can barter not only at NCR... there're alot towns at California and even more NPC traders than towns.

You completely missed the point. I do not whine over myself but I defend low levels and crafters. I mean you can avoid meeting pvp gangs, eg in RT. Im a loner and some people are too. The game is not so harsh for me, just this recent changes let to massive theft. And yes I can move, but for me NCR is the best town, a lot of people I can talk to unlike others.

Solution: some minus to karma (20?) for even browsing someones stuff in guarded towns. AND COOLDOWN

Yes i'm telling you to move, it's your own dam fault that you are distracted by the merchant, and the thief tries to take advantage off that. It's already incredible hard for thieves to make a living, for once stop whining, and take a higher PE next time.

I have 8 PE as a matter of fact still getting robbed, the thief runs away but 2 others are around. MADNESS? You simply cant trade in NCR

I agree with Vedaras, stealing timeout should be much longer (at least 3 minutes), not only because it prevents people from doing tasks like trading and talking to NPCs, but especially because right now it's waaay to easy to level up a thief. Farming XP using steal and 1 cap is what I call lame mechanics, not timeouts. Anyway, IMHO stealing should be totally reworked, the penalties, the timeouts, how XP is computed (it's very stupid right now and basicly encourages XP farming using bots), pickpocket perk (which maybe was OK for a single player game but overpowered in MMORPG) and finally some PvE jobs for thieves.

TOTALLY AGREE

[Sius]

nah i dont agree with you. If thief would have 5 minutes cooldown for example, player who comes to trade could walk away when thief is trying to rob him, and then trade when thief is on cooldown. Now its impossible to avoid thief for trader, since one thief could terrorize all players comming to same npc trader because of very low cooldown, and its not right for sure.

Remember that thief have to check his victim first. Not everyone is wearing pulse rifles at him while trading with npc. Increasing cooldowns will lead only to more boring game. Diversity is what we need. And don't tell me that thieves are overpowered right now. Its all the same as it was, only difference is that the flag is invisible and people are lazy or scared to do the work that guards used to do for them.
Stealing should be nerfed in matter of what you can steal with what skill/perk but not through stupid cooldowns. And you still ignore little fact that problem with thieves is only in NCR since its hearth of the south but thieves can't steal anywhere else, they can be easily recognized and shot + they can't steal forever.

I think what we need is some kind of thief check for players. Now people are afraid to shoot at thieves and they can be 100% sure only when the guards yell that someone is being robbed but even then thief walks away unhurt in 7 out of 10 cases. But if people could somehow "push/punch/slap/something" everyone for some really low 1-2 or non dmg to see if they are thieves or not then it could help.
I mean I see someone with stealing animation. I'm not sure if the guy is a thief so I will use "push/slap/something" on him. If he is a thief (flagged) guards will not react but if he is innocent guy (not flagged) then guards will warn me not to do that again. This way people could check if they are free to shoot or not. But this is kinda not needed for people who keep their eyes open but it would certainly make robbing people way more dangerous then it is now. Also I find this kinda huge boost and it might lead to extinction of thievery and thats also something that should not happen. Simply balance is needed and now one side nerf will deliver it in this case.

[kraskish]

Remember that thief have to check his victim first. Not everyone is wearing pulse rifles at him while trading with npc. Increasing cooldowns will lead only to more boring game. Diversity is what we need. And don't tell me that thieves are overpowered right now. Its all the same as it was, only difference is that the flag is invisible and people are lazy or scared to do the work that guards used to do for them.
Stealing should be nerfed in matter of what you can steal with what skill/perk but not through stupid cooldowns. And you still ignore little fact that problem with thieves is only in NCR since its hearth of the south but thieves can't steal anywhere else, they can be easily recognized and shot + they can't steal forever.

I think what we need is some kind of thief check for players. Now people are afraid to shoot at thieves and they can be 100% sure only when the guards yell that someone is being robbed but even then thief walks away unhurt in 7 out of 10 cases. But if people could somehow "push/punch/slap/something" everyone for some really low 1-2 or non dmg to see if they are thieves or not then it could help.
I mean I see someone with stealing animation. I'm not sure if the guy is a thief so I will use "push/slap/something" on him. If he is a thief (flagged) guards will not react but if he is innocent guy (not flagged) then guards will warn me not to do that again. This way people could check if they are free to shoot or not. But this is kinda not needed for people who keep their eyes open but it would certainly make robbing people way more dangerous then it is now. Also I find this kinda huge boost and it might lead to extinction of thievery and thats also something that should not happen. Simply balance is needed and now one side nerf will deliver it in this case.

Wouldnt it be easier to have a visual (red) flag over the name? It would be fair, I mean in real life if 4 people (guards) shout that hes a thief, everyone should know it, but the message above guards doesnt appear in the chat so making it really easy also with low cooldown as it is now

[Sius]

Don't ring up real life "argument" into this. This is online game not reality so people stop using that... really.

And visible flags = to 0 thievery. It could be introduced but again there should be some countermeasure for thieves how to hide that flag even when they are flagged and still steal etc. Again no one side nerf will solve this situation. 

[gordulan]

i'd say that ir should stay as it is, itäs hard enough for a loner thief to make a living, there's no need to wipe em out even further...

[vedaras]

Remember that thief have to check his victim first.

yeah but i mean, you "check one" and he is shouting "this man is a thief" there should be some time needed to pass  so that others could forget you are thief. Now stealing is good its very easy to steal if you have good skill and pickpocket perk. But its also easy to abuse, since you can stand near one bartender and steal from everyone who comes to trade (since they need to scroll items and time needs to pass, you will 100% have your chance on person you need to check). This is not right, i am for bigger cooldown. Since its quite easy to rob someone if you are skilled, it should be like a try of real life luck. "oh i was not lucky, he had nothing" so in result of being unlucky i will have to wait 5 minutes or something, and "this is my day, i took lsw from that sucker, will go to put in to tent and then try again", sounds fair to me :>

[Ulrek]

personally, i'd for a thief, i'd go with these boosts/weak points.

1: a thief does not show a "use" animation unless he gets caught stealing.
2: a thief if caught has his name turn black for 10-20 seconds.
3: the amount of skill needed to steal a item is based on its weight, meaning caps and small amounts of ammo could go missing more easily, where as a minigun could never be stolen.
4: a thief has a chance to be caught just looking in some ones pockets, so if anyone tries to just look in a big combat armor wearing guys pockets they could get shot for it. but any real thief could do it fine still.


the first suggestion has one useful thing about it that i like more than the others, for the simple reason that if people don't know they're being robbed they don't get mad, so while this might not be so nice for people at first, a person standing behind you is pretty fairly easy to spot, and unless caught you won't even know who did it unless you really look.

as it stands trying to pick pocket some one without stealth on is almost like walking up to them and punching them in the face its so offensive, not to mention the point of being a good thief is that no one knows who's stealing.

sure its bad for me as a crafter. but at least i'd like to not know i'm being robbed if i forget to look, rather than not know who to shoot or not.

cheers.

-Ulrek-

[John.Metzger]

3: the amount of skill needed to steal a item is based on its weight, meaning caps and small amounts of ammo could go missing more easily, where as a minigun could never be stolen.

Pickpocket
From FOnline: 2238 Wiki
Requirements    Level 15, Agility 8, Steal 80
Ranks    1
You are much more adept at stealing than the normal crook. You can steal with the best of them, because with this Perk, you ignore size and facing modifiers when stealing from a person.

Edit: sry i have to read more carefully

[Ulrek]

Pickpocket
From FOnline: 2238 Wiki
Requirements    Level 15, Agility 8, Steal 80
Ranks    1
You are much more adept at stealing than the normal crook. You can steal with the best of them, because with this Perk, you ignore size and facing modifiers when stealing from a person.

Edit: sry i have to read more carefully

i'd say thats a good example of a perk made for single player, but not multi player.

but still you cannot say i'd be taking something away from the pick pockets to much with the suggestions i mentioned, so what if you cant steal his minigun? you can steal all his ammo a little bit at a time. and not have him know for sure other wise unless caught.

-Ulerk-

[kraskish]

personally, i'd for a thief, i'd go with these boosts/weak points.

1: a thief does not show a "use" animation unless he gets caught stealing.
2: a thief if caught has his name turn black for 10-20 seconds.
3: the amount of skill needed to steal a item is based on its weight, meaning caps and small amounts of ammo could go missing more easily, where as a minigun could never be stolen.
4: a thief has a chance to be caught just looking in some ones pockets, so if anyone tries to just look in a big combat armor wearing guys pockets they could get shot for it. but any real thief could do it fine still.


the first suggestion has one useful thing about it that i like more than the others, for the simple reason that if people don't know they're being robbed they don't get mad, so while this might not be so nice for people at first, a person standing behind you is pretty fairly easy to spot, and unless caught you won't even know who did it unless you really look.

as it stands trying to pick pocket some one without stealth on is almost like walking up to them and punching them in the face its so offensive, not to mention the point of being a good thief is that no one knows who's stealing.

sure its bad for me as a crafter. but at least i'd like to not know i'm being robbed if i forget to look, rather than not know who to shoot or not.

cheers.

-Ulrek-

I agree, but I think the weight modificator works, doesnt it?

1 Anyway, more than weight, there should be a value modifier, I mean, caps weight 0 so you would/are able to steal 100 000 from a pocket and couldnt steal broken minigun worth 1000?

2. Peeking time should be based on thieves skill... meaning that for example steal 40% - 2 seconds , 100% 3 seconds 200% 5 seconds, after that the window would close and/or they would get caught while peeking, that would be fair