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[lomzig]

im not sure if they are intended or not, but here is an idea i got yesterday:
you already have a code to give player a perk (slaver and metzger)
so why dont make all perks quest achievable,
for example want to learn handling weapons? - go befriend gunrunners
wanna be tough - go learn from martial arts experts in SF or new reno boxing club

this would make many "power" build obsolete as some trainers might refuse to train already all seeing (pe10) char to view eve better, or some weakling idiot to handle big sniper rifle (tell kids to go home n stuff)

this + ignorance of drug effects would seriously make if not all but at least some powe builds obsolete.

disclaimer: yes i find the power builds game ruining, unnecesarry and exploit/metagame prone, and I think thats bad for a game.

[Sius]

Powerbuilds dot ruin anything. Its gap between powerbuilds and the rest of the wasteland that sucks - not PB themselves. Its nothing else than natural escalation that happens everywhere you can compete and there is nothing wrong about PB. But what I find kinda wrong is that char who focuses on non-combat activities is not able to take some gun and kill toad or scorpion (even a kid can handle pistols/AK etc). Everyone should have some "basic" combat skills no matter if he is thief, scientist, crafter.

Anyway idea of learning stuff from trainers seems nice to be, but I would not apply any craizy restrictions through it. Also there is huge problem with reputation. If someone rolls a badass raider then he might find himself in situation where he can't enter towns where the trainers are ergo he won't be able to learn new perks. And forcing people to choose only certain perks/skills because they roll something else than others is just... lame. Take current professions situation as an example of how it should not be done. If you want to learn something you HAVE to be member of some faction that you give a shit about. But there is no other way how to reach for it so you will simply play as someone designed it just to reach your goals. Then you resign and play as you want again. So imho thats totally wrong game design.

[avv]

It would be nice addition to the game but it won't fix unbalance between powerbuilds and normal chars because of reasons Sius stated.
Powerbuilds' reign is based on two reasons:
1. The SPECIAL's rule where you have very high potential to be good at something. 
2. Man's eternal greed. 
You get the picture which one is easier to fix.

Powerbuilds dot ruin anything. Its gap between powerbuilds and the rest of the wasteland that sucks - not PB themselves. Its nothing else than natural escalation that happens everywhere you can compete and there is nothing wrong about PB.

Mostly right except that in our case the powerbuilds wouldn't be possible without alt support. But all in all there's nothing wrong with powerbuilds, because if the game is balanced, even crafter-fighter can be powerbuild.

[Hololasima]

Why you want ruin PowerBuilds ? You have problem with them ?
Dont you forget about  that you can create this kind of character too ?

I dont understand what you want from this suggestion ? Less dangerous in mines or towns ? Hmmm

[Wichura]

Why you want ruin PowerBuilds ? You have problem with them ?
Dont you forget about  that you can create this kind of character too ?

I dont understand what you want from this suggestion ? Less dangerous in mines or towns ? Hmmm

+1

Stop restricting. There is already a lot of limitations, don't multiply them.
And why powerbuilds would ruin the game - I don't get it either. Let people play as they want to.

[Sius]

Mostly right except that in our case the powerbuilds wouldn't be possible without alt support. But all in all there's nothing wrong with powerbuilds, because if the game is balanced, even crafter-fighter can be powerbuild.

They are not possible without alts now. But someday an actual player interaction could work and even powerbuilder could get some possessions using skills he is good at and then trade this stuff for ammo/items etc. That kind of gameplay is what I'm looking for but for now self sufficient manufacture will do the trick too.

[Solar]

They are not possible without alts now. But someday an actual player interaction could work and even powerbuilder could get some possessions using skills he is good at and then trade this stuff for ammo/items etc. That kind of gameplay is what I'm looking for but for now self sufficient manufacture will do the trick too.

Its possible to have a char thats very good at combat and a level 3 crafter. Its also easy to build bad chars.

All these stop the power builds!!!1 threads are really "Allow more room to build "bad" chars and still compete with the well designed ones." - Which is a fair enough point, but doesn't need anything nerfing.

[avv]

Its possible to have a char thats very good at combat and a level 3 crafter.

But why isn't the competitive scene doing this? Because it's not as effective as powerbuilds. While pro pvp dudes got their powerbuilds AND are supposedly super experienced in pvp battle because they don't do anything else, normal build players don't stand a chance when these two encounter. My fastshotting sg dude with 2x toughness and 2x lifegiver is pretty okay, can do 2x bursts in one turn with p90 +one shot with .223 pistol or throw 4 plasmagrens, yet I haven't won a single fight in an encounter. They are always over after the dude I encountered got a turn to shoot.

Today I got plasmanaded by invisible dude, shot in the eyes with plasmarifle. Both combats ended in one turn before I got to do anything. Yesterday I got pwned by 5 dudes because one of them happened to shoot me in the eyes and knock my ap down to -20 before my turn. Rest 4 of them did like 100 damage combined, but super stimpaks are no use if you don't have ap to use them. Then again encounter positioning could use some working, but still combats are over way too fast.

All these stop the power builds!!!1 threads are really "Allow more room to build "bad" chars and still compete with the well designed ones." - Which is a fair enough point, but doesn't need anything nerfing

There wouldn't be anything wrong with powerbuilds if the game wasn't so dependent on character creation and battles being over so fast. There isn't much room for strategy if you're either dead immediately or down to -20 ap. Hell I even got blinded once while fighting 2 dudes, it was fun because I could move, shoot and use stimpaks but instakill crits won't make it any funnier.

This might sound like big T_T but I'm a guy who plays a lone crafter-fighter and these are the results from my perspective. When travelling I'm usually armed to teeth and ready to face the worst so it can't be because of the equipment. If it's lack of skill, then what did I do wrong in a situation where I never was given the chance to shoot or act back?

[Roachor]

People who complain about "powerbuilds" seem to be people who have no idea how to make a good character.

[Solar]

Well, to be fair Avv's char seems decent. He just got owned by sneak and snipers, two things that are crazy at the moment. Would've been the same no matter what char he had.

[Avoral]

im not sure if they are intended or not, but here is an idea i got yesterday:
you already have a code to give player a perk (slaver and metzger)
so why dont make all perks quest achievable,
for example want to learn handling weapons? - go befriend gunrunners
wanna be tough - go learn from martial arts experts in SF or new reno boxing club

this would make many "power" build obsolete as some trainers might refuse to train already all seeing (pe10) char to view eve better, or some weakling idiot to handle big sniper rifle (tell kids to go home n stuff)

this + ignorance of drug effects would seriously make if not all but at least some powe builds obsolete.

disclaimer: yes i find the power builds game ruining, unnecesarry and exploit/metagame prone, and I think thats bad for a game.

I dont like the idea of huge army of terminators moving in everywhere, killing every1 weaker than themself. IMO it would be a hell - like in diablo