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Future pvp theme

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avv:
This thread is about what direction and basics our pvp system should include. Our pvp lacks style and a mainline that sets global rules for it, instead of that it's shortly delivering damage packages of various sizes upon our enemies.

What I mean with style here is what are principles and basics of pvp combat. You can't start making suggestion about buffing single weapon, skill or perk if the whole system is at weak state. There's no way that we can make a good pvp system by just fixing little things here and there if it doesn't have a some main theme which everything is based on. For example we got those shotgun buff threads. Surely shotguns are weak, but where is it said that all guns must be balanced? There's no mainline where to base our theories, except that fonline is based on fallout. But that can mean lots of things or nothing at all because fallout was singleplayer.
Same goes with Lordus' gun improvement thread. It has good visions but sadly things cannot be changed by posting bigass thread full of details into suggestions forum. What we gotta do is to sit down and start throwing ideas. But not ideas like "we gotta have reactive bulletproof vests and exploding armorpiercing poisonbullets". That's too detailed, they are micro features, we gotta go for macro. Throw ideas like: "It must be harder to hit running target than stationary" or "big guns should mainly act as support because deploying them should take longer".

Think of fallout tactics. It would have pretty good starting point for our pvp. Fallout tactics had the problem that when shit hit the fan in realtime, it was hard to micro your squad. But now that everyone only control one character + some possible mercs, it should be easier to perform tactical actions even under stress.

I've got some ideas of my own, but what do others honestly think? Remember this: because the current system is not valid, lacks style and principles, suggestions like "nerf snipers" are not reasonable.

Izual:
The best way to improve PvP (and PvE as well) is to make the game support, like FoT, obstacles. And with 3D era this would be possible - your char shall not only be able to stand up. Using covers would actually be great. But maybe I'm too optimistic =p

Swinglinered:

--- Quote from: Izual on April 16, 2010, 10:05:53 PM ---The best way to improve PvP (and PvE as well) is to make the game support, like FoT, obstacles. And with 3D era this would be possible - your char shall not only be able to stand up. Using covers would actually be great. But maybe I'm too optimistic =p

--- End quote ---

Snipers will be even worse with stances and more obstacles.

Flexible/Tunnel Rat/Bonus Move/Silent Running

Sius:

--- Quote from: Swinglinered on April 16, 2010, 10:59:32 PM ---Snipers will be even worse with stances and more obstacles.
Flexible/Tunnel Rat/Bonus Move/Silent Running

--- End quote ---
->

--- Quote ---Remember this: because the current system is not valid, lacks style and principles, suggestions like "nerf snipers" are not reasonable.
--- End quote ---

READ BEFORE YOU POST!



--- Quote from: Izual on April 16, 2010, 10:05:53 PM ---The best way to improve PvP (and PvE as well) is to make the game support, like FoT, obstacles. And with 3D era this would be possible - your char shall not only be able to stand up. Using covers would actually be great. But maybe I'm too optimistic =p

--- End quote ---

Well its not about chars only, environment counts here too. But I think things like that could upgrade current rock-paper-scissors PvP into something more like chess.
Anyway I lack something like class system, diversity and combinations here. I'm not saying that you should choose your class at the beginning but you should develop as you play. If you choose some path then you should be able to be different from others, have some unique skills that others who took different paths don't have so you could group up and support each other well. Also 10 BG soldiers should equal to 10 different BG soldiers with their own little differences in builds. No clones but shitload of small choices that push your char just a little higher at the food chain.

I think some really basic stuff require some drastic changes here but it has to be done step by step. So lets start with absolutely elemental stuff - character development. I don't know how you but I'm not satisfied with 7 or 5 choices + X skillpoints to distribute. Imho level cap should be raised BUT amount of skillpoints per level and "perk power" should be nerfed equally to that. So lets say if the level cap is 4x21=84, then with 5 IN we would not get 15 skillpoints per level but 15/4 and same goes for perks. We would not get +5% crit chance, but +1% with possibility to take X ranks etc. Imho 21 levels don't provide enough space for character development.

Also there were some talks about additional abilities for our characters. So we would have SPECIAL, perks, skillpoints and abilities. By ability you should imagine something that makes your character differs from others. Abilities should be main recognition sign when we would talk about classes. Every time you level up you should be able to train and learn new abilities. Starting with some really basic roots like offense, defense, support (we talk about PvP only for now). If you decide to roll offense tree then with every level you will be able to go to an NPC (lets say war veteran or someone like that for low lvl abilities) and get trained. You will decide if you want to learn new abilities or get better with those you already know. Some should be passive (affecting your char nonstop) some should be active (possible to use when player decides to but with some recharge time). So maybe an example:
I want to roll a medic => When I level up I will be able to get some training. I will visit my local doctor and for a fee he will show me some tricks. So I will roll support tree. First ability could be passive upgrade of my FA with 5 ranks = 3/6/9/12/15% bonus. Then when I'm more experienced (=some abilities already trained), I'll be able to choose from more and better abilities etc. So maybe pick something from everything or specialize at certain area of interest and so on.
More info about this at http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=3723.15.

These are just mine own visions of FOnline and how I would like it. But even when non of this will come true I will most likely stay and play it and with more game content included more interesting it will get.

RavenousRat:

--- Quote from: Izual on April 16, 2010, 10:05:53 PM ---The best way to improve PvP (and PvE as well) is to make the game support, like FoT, obstacles. And with 3D era this would be possible - your char shall not only be able to stand up. Using covers would actually be great. But maybe I'm too optimistic =p

--- End quote ---
Oh yes, when you playing at JA2 1.13 with only 1 merc (from B.S.I. of couse), you'll always find good place like trees or crates or something like that, or else these 7346854 guys will burst you to death. But again... it's more and more becomes FT. Of couse it'll be fun to use vehicles in TC, they will use driver-alt, and other PvP-guys will shoot from the car and it'll be fun, till one guy with bazooka explode thier car, etc. It's all tactical suggestions of couse good for PvP, but.. it requires total and very very hard changes.
I know, you simply want to have a chance to avoid attack when a tree between you and attacker, and this tree is situated atleast in 2 hexes from you and over 4-5 hexes from target, so there's great chance that bullet/ray will hit tree instead of you, regardless % to hit, like "concealement" in NWN(and other D&Ds), when even if you have almost 100% to hit, there's another roll 50% that you'll miss a target.

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