Other > General Game Discussion
(report) shotguns in pvp-useless
Solar:
For raw damage, a sniper would average out at 66% of a Jackhammers burst damage, even when you factor Snipers criticals in and don't bother to include the Jackhammers.
Its just an added layer of flexability that SG could enjoy.
Bulldog:
--- Quote from: Solar on June 12, 2010, 06:12:46 PM ---I just created a CA merc, shot him with a Jackhammer for 164, 139, 109, 153, 162, 270, 110, 117, 223 and 151. Average of 159.8.
Then with an Avenger 173, 239, 55, 127, 68, 131, 123, 131, 84, 180. Average of 131.1.
Highly unscientific and I'd actually expect the Avenger to do ~9% extra damage over time, but Jackhammers are not weak.
--- End quote ---
Solar, this numbers can't be true VS a CA player, at least think about it, who needs a minigun if a Pankor outdamages it? Don't be silly, I use a Pankor.
Solar:
Actually, those were done with 100% crits, lets do it again.
Jackhammer
--- Quote ---Mercenary was hit for 33 hit points.
19:55:15 • Mercenary was hit for 49 hit points.
19:55:25 • Mercenary was hit for 57 hit points.
19:55:27 • Mercenary was hit for 62 hit points.
19:55:33 • Mercenary was hit for 51 hit points.
19:55:36 • Mercenary was hit for 54 hit points.
19:55:45 • Mercenary was hit for 61 hit points.
19:55:46 • Mercenary was hit for 11 hit points.
19:55:57 • Mercenary was hit for 50 hit points.
19:56:00 • Mercenary was hit for 54 hit points.
19:56:08 • Mercenary was hit for 61 hit points.
19:56:11 • Mercenary was hit for 62 hit points.
19:56:19 • Mercenary was hit for 55 hit points.
19:56:21 • Mercenary was hit for 54 hit points.
19:56:27 • Mercenary was hit for 15 hit points.
19:56:29 • Mercenary was hit for 12 hit points.
19:56:32 • Mercenary was hit for 13 hit points.
19:56:40 • Mercenary was hit for 55 hit points.
19:56:42 • Mercenary was hit for 52 hit points.
19:56:48 • Mercenary was hit for 56 hit points.
19:56:51 • Mercenary was hit for 60 hit points.
19:56:57 • Mercenary was hit for 51 hit points.
19:57:00 • Mercenary was hit for 58 hit points.
19:57:06 • Mercenary was hit for 64 hit points.
19:57:09 • Mercenary was hit for 54 hit points.
19:57:17 • Mercenary was hit for 58 hit points.
19:57:19 • Mercenary was hit for 57 hit points.
19:57:25 • Mercenary was hit for 58 hit points.
19:57:28 • Mercenary was hit for 47 hit points.
--- End quote ---
Average of 49.1
Avenger
--- Quote ---• Mercenary was hit for 32 hit points.
20:06:22 • Mercenary was hit for 69 hit points.
20:06:26 • Mercenary was hit for 43 hit points.
20:06:30 • Mercenary was hit for 35 hit points.
20:06:33 • Mercenary was hit for 65 hit points.
20:06:37 • Mercenary was hit for 72 hit points.
20:06:41 • Mercenary was hit for 74 hit points.
20:06:44 • Mercenary was hit for 62 hit points.
20:06:48 • Mercenary was hit for 30 hit points.
20:06:52 • Mercenary was hit for 68 hit points.
20:06:55 • Mercenary was hit for 74 hit points.
20:06:59 • Mercenary was hit for 74 hit points.
20:07:02 • Mercenary was hit for 63 hit points.
20:07:06 • Mercenary was hit for 60 hit points.
20:07:10 • Mercenary was hit for 73 hit points.
20:07:13 • Mercenary was hit for 31 hit points.
20:07:17 • Mercenary was hit for 44 hit points.
20:07:21 • Mercenary was hit for 58 hit points.
20:07:24 • Mercenary was hit for 28 hit points.
20:07:41 • Mercenary was hit for 64 hit points.
20:07:43 • Mercenary was hit for 67 hit points.
20:08:03 • Mercenary was hit for 65 hit points.
20:08:05 • Mercenary was hit for 63 hit points.
20:08:09 • Mercenary was hit for 70 hit points.
20:08:13 • Mercenary was hit for 66 hit points.
20:08:17 • Mercenary was hit for 70 hit points.
20:08:20 • Mercenary was hit for 74 hit points.
20:08:24 • Mercenary was hit for 66 hit points.
20:08:33 • Mercenary was hit for 74 hit points.
--- End quote ---
Average of 59.8 (Jackhammer did 82% of the Avenger damage - adjust for AP and its 115%)
More what was expected actually, damn super crits :P
Bulldog:
--- Quote from: Solar on June 13, 2010, 09:16:01 PM ---Actually, those were done with 100% crits, lets do it again.
Jackhammer
Average of 49.1
Avenger
Average of 59.8 (Jackhammer did 82% of the Avenger damage - adjust for AP and its 115%)
More what was expected actually, damn super crits :P
--- End quote ---
I' sorry, Solar, but what do this crit calculations have to do with our topic? Are we expected to make some crit builds with pancors or something? The reason that I've made this topic is that right now we have basically 2 pvp builds, a BG and a Sniper/L Sniper, melee is dead in pvp, but that's not the point right now, I'm looking forward to making shotguns (as a type of weapons) to be good enough for the majority of players to use, because right now we have only 2-3 weapons rich pvp'ers use, like the sniper/laser rifle, avengers and plasma nades and this is it, I don't get it, like all the people who are against improving pancors say that they are as good as a minigun without 2 BRD, well, that's lame, due to the lack of -DR or even -/DT (DT will not improve the damage much) they are absolutely useless VS a CA guy, in case he has toughness or even two, this high tier canon becomes even worse, if he uses a psixo, you won't be dealing any damage at all (I guess). The range is 3 times less than the range of other high tier weapons.
Hell, people, if you want to stick to only 2-3 builds over years then we could just remove all the weapons and perks except for just about 4 weapons and about 9 "pvp must have perks"
The thing that kills me most is that the DEVs don't pay much attention to this thread, although we're speaking mainly of the way of making the game more fun and less boring and simple than it is now. The funny fact is that when there were the times when sneak ruled the game and any decent pvp build had to have a nice sneak, the devs nerfed it so that the game doesn't become just hide and seek, why don't you understand that this battles that consist of 4 weapons are not much better than a sneaking game?
And the most annoying part of this struggle is that you (DEVs) don’t even experiment with this shotgun parameters as you did with other features (such as sneak or crafting or many other things that we see in the change logs)
Solar:
--- Quote ---I' sorry, Solar, but what do this crit calculations have to do with our topic?
--- End quote ---
The last post was without crits. The char has 1 luck and none were crits (I pasted those directly from the log).
--- Quote ---And the most annoying part of this struggle is that you (DEVs) don’t even experiment with this shotgun parameters as you did with other features (such as sneak or crafting or many other things that we see in the change logs)
--- End quote ---
We have already changed the shotguns. They used to fire bursts like everything else, now they don't. They used to be weak, now they aren't.
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