Author Topic: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238  (Read 11276 times)

Offline Lexx

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Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« on: October 27, 2016, 07:06:28 am »
Inspired by a different thread I am opening this one:

If you have any questions about the old FOnline: 2238 and its development, origins, thoughts or ideas, then ask away. I (or other original devs strolling by) will try to answer them and provide insight, if possible.

Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2016, 04:57:05 pm »
Thank you, I have few questions.

1. When did you hear about FOnline for first time? What were your reaction?

2. How did you get access to FOnline source which you used for creating 2238?

3. Who were early developers and what they were resposible for? (example: Dev1 - combat system programmer, Dev2 - mapping)

4. Did you have any secret ideas which you wanted to introduce but never told about that?

5. Can you shortly (or more detailed) write about launch day of 2238? What were your reactions, how did you prepare for it?

And the last one question (but not the last) right now:

6. Were you playing the game in your spare time when you don't develop the game? If yes write how and when, if not tell why you weren't playing.


So that's at the moment. Thank you all 2238 devs for your amazing work.


Offline Lexx

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Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2016, 06:14:40 pm »
Keep in mind, it's quite some time since, but I try to remember as best as I can.


1. When did you hear about FOnline for first time? What were your reaction?
Don't really remember, but it was a few years before the first open beta. Never made much of it, because "it was just another Fallout mod" at that time. Everyone was skeptical about this ever getting a real release anyway... People were working on other Fallout-like engines ever since and none ever finished (IanOut, FIFE, etc).

2. How did you get access to FOnline source which you used for creating 2238?
I wasn't really involved at that time, so I am not 100% sure- someone else from us back then (before I joined) asked cvet about it and he agreed. Maybe scypior or ghosthack can share some more details on this.

3. Who were early developers and what they were resposible for? (example: Dev1 - combat system programmer, Dev2 - mapping)
Again, probably not going to get all the details right, but what I can say right away:
- Atom was reverse engineering lots of stuff from Fallout 2 and scripted new combat.fos, hit calculations, etc.
- Ghosthack and scypior wrote many scripts as well (scypior made the famous junk clutters in random encounters \o/ ... he scripted it and I've tested + checked the maps while we were at work... woops. :>)
- Ghosthack and Atom also worked on our tools, with the Worldmap Editor mainly being Ghosts thing. Honestly, without that tool, fiddleing with the worldmap and encounters was a god damn mess.
- Lisac did quest stuff, some mapping and dialogue as well.
- In the early days, I worked mostly on maps and ported dialogues from Fo1/2 (I ported many maps, but not all- don't know who did the first batch, as I wasn't around yet). Later I did some quest design and stuff like that, when working on maps became a bit less important (till the end I kept fixing holes in walls, though). Oh, and Lisac and me both were nazis about the Fallout lore. Whatever we did somehow had to fit into the lore... else I'd consider it shit.
- Slim Charles worked on dialogues the most at the early times, I guess. He wrote famous Metzger... and with all the different nodes and options, etc. everyone who looks at that dialogue in the editor will die a horrible death. :>
- Prefontaine and / or Lazlo(?) had been working on map and dialogue stuff too.

I think that's everyone who was there at the very beginning. Could be that I missed someone, though...

Fun Fact: Our project leader, AHS-9, never existed. He was a joke.

4. Did you have any secret ideas which you wanted to introduce but never told about that?
Me personally: I totally wanted a hot air balloon as vehicle (like the vertibird, but cooler). Graphics etc. exist since years, but they were originally made for my Fallout 2 mod, which is not yet released- never wanted to release the graphics before my mod was done, because then vultures would have ripped and used it without ever giving credits. :> Hey, maybe my Fo2 mod will be released some day, then this thing can hit FOnline too (the vehicle was already in 2238 & working. I just removed the graphics). Junktown was to have a workshop for them, inclusive quest to get one, keep it repaired, etc.

5. Can you shortly (or more detailed) write about launch day of 2238? What were your reactions, how did you prepare for it?
We were 110% stressed, every one of us. The weeks before were spend on full crunch mode. Wasn't sleeping much, because when I wasn't at my real workplace, I did nothing but working on 2238 and occasionally eating. The past days were also spend on writing the manual, which was even more stressing... (and kinda a waste of time. It didn't took long till it was completely outdated and we never worked on it again. Making a wiki would have been a wiser decision).

Launch day was awesome. We had like 1.000 players and counting. Server was running hot and lag was big. Have to say, the interest was way bigger than I've (and probably anyone else) expected. Thought we'd get like what... 100 people or so at max?

6. Were you playing the game in your spare time when you don't develop the game? If yes write how and when, if not tell why you weren't playing.
Me personally not that much anymore after launch. We constantly had to fix bugs and exploits and people wanted more content of any kind. It was just impossible to get it all under one hat while at the same time having a real job or school or kids.
I know that some from us were playing it every once in a while. Especially Solar later on, to test the economy balance and stuff like that.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 06:20:00 pm by Lexx »

Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2016, 03:49:49 pm »
Thanks, nice answers.

The question which I ask now isn't mainly related to early development... but what was happen with rest of devs? I can recognize only few which sometimes visit this forum. Would you like to still develop or contribute in some fonline projects?

Offline Ghosthack

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Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2016, 08:34:07 am »
Thanks, nice answers.

The question which I ask now isn't mainly related to early development... but what was happen with rest of devs? I can recognize only few which sometimes visit this forum. Would you like to still develop or contribute in some fonline projects?

A lot of us still lurk on IRC and few of us are semi-active on this forum.

As for the state of FOnline in general, unless the engine is open sourced (by cvet) or someone creates a new engine that is open for the whole community, I don't think that much will happen to FOnline. From what I've seen, all the current projects are stuck on certain versions of the server/client and can't do any big changes without complicated hacks of the binaries.

I hope that there will be some more collaboration, but it looks like everyone is doing their own thing for now mostly. But I could be wrong, I don't have any contact with current projects except via this forum.

Offline lisac2k

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Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2016, 01:02:08 am »
Thanks, nice answers.

The question which I ask now isn't mainly related to early development... but what was happen with rest of devs? I can recognize only few which sometimes visit this forum. Would you like to still develop or contribute in some fonline projects?

I'm here...

We lost some, like Solar. He does drop by, though every second year or so. The others not. Such is life, as Hakunin would say.

I doubt I would be taking part in a FOnline project or contribute under current circumstances. Can't say for others... Except for Wipe - if I understand correctly she is contributing almost all current projects continuously, however within certain limits.

Quote
4. Did you have any secret ideas which you wanted to introduce but never told about that?
Lynch mob. At one point I was really disappointed that people started to kill town NPCs, which were crucial for quests and a broader background picture in the game (or killing traders, too). So, I came up with an idea that killing one NPC in a town wouldn't be seriously sanctioned, but as you kill more and more NPCs, the chance is getting higher that on the outskirts of that town you'd get ambushed by a lynch mob.

This was supposed to be an encounter next to impossible to survive or to flee from, so the player would die and lose all his items/money. Traveling in party wouldn't help, cause the ambush could take place when you're separated from the rest of the group (for the sake of role-playing, let's say you stay behind the group to urinate or unload your excrement behind a rock). Also, imagine a situation where well equipped party of five goes into battle, and then one is suddenly missing because the lynch mob got him/her. This brings a whole new situation for the rest four members of that group regarding their tactics and upcoming combat.

However, the idea was presented at a bad time. We had a lot of other critical issues to take care of back then, so it was eventually forfeited. I think only Atom and I discussed shortly about it once, but nothing serious came out of it. So, yeah, you could say it remained a "secret idea" for the rest of the world.

Offline Lexx

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Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2016, 03:23:15 pm »
Quote
4. Did you have any secret ideas which you wanted to introduce but never told about that?
I found some more stuff I've worked on, but never finished. Beware shitton of text...

FOnline: 2238 NCR Prison (NCRCF)

FOnline: 2238 - Boneyard Police Station

« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 03:29:39 pm by Lexx »

Offline Lexx

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Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2016, 03:23:34 pm »
Post Part 2, because of character limitation.

FOnline: 2238 - Angel's Boneyard Gold Reserve

FOnline: 2238 Train Ambush Encounter

« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 03:29:14 pm by Lexx »

Offline Slowhand

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Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2016, 06:43:24 pm »
As for the state of FOnline in general, unless the engine is open sourced (by cvet) or someone creates a new engine that is open for the whole community, I don't think that much will happen to FOnline.

Had the same idea a while ago.

I found some more stuff I've worked on, but never finished. Beware shitton of text...

That's just cool :) Ofc, these will not likely happen, as most people don't consider RPG elements core values.


Offline Wipe

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Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2016, 03:10:04 pm »
1. When did you hear about FOnline for first time?
It was after OBT2 ended or something like that, so about half of 2009 i think? Admin of some shitty polish *chan sticked some post with screenshots of it. After it ended, yes, so i just missed it. Just my luck.

I've since then visited that *chan only to get info when next OBT gonna be. When finally there was another did, i landed on original TLA server, in some shithole part of the WM, and for some reason i just *had* to go to VC. Nobody to help/advice, no "how do git gud", just me - total noob, and a harsh wasteland. Anyone who remembers 2009 TLA - it's that time when you can feel sorry for me.
After finally reaching VC some nice russian fella not only flooded me with top tier stuff, lot of advices and understable english, but - most importantly - gave a link to 2238 board on NMA and hinted that it may be more in my style. Heck, it was. Never had chance to thank a guy later, don't remember either his or mine char name, but he still remains as my favourite russian in FOnline world :)

Funny fact: exactly same *chan admin who posted FOnline screenshots was banned on #rotators for some reason until late 2014? 2015? when one of ForestNet failures finally cleared ban list, so i was being reminded how it all started over all these years.

2. How did you get access to FOnline source which you used for creating 2238?
I know it's about how Rotators got access to FOnline, but i got a funny one how i got access to 2238 itself.

After Rusty kidnapped my sorry ass and made me GM, i was given access to some FTP which was earlier used to distribute client among CBT players (mind you, it was long before SDK release). There wasn't much use for it honestly, except one thing. Full backup of TLA server, together with all scripts, tools, maps, .client files (with plaintext passwords, sic!), well everything to run and dev your own TLA at home.

It was later called 'leak of the year' among Rotators.

I toyed with it for a few days, tried some very first scripts, started asking Atom/Ghosthack how things works, until they realized that i know a bit too much about server/client than i should :) After cvet took backup out of FTP, i continued to write some shitty scripts which i sent to them and - after review - was put into 2238 or not. Fast forward, they got tired of such extra work and i got an access to 2238 repository.

Funny fact: Some of scripts from send-review-include era are still, nearly untouched, in 2238, as i get eye cancer and hearth attack, at same time, every time i try to read them (... weather*.fos ...)

4. Did you have any secret ideas which you wanted to introduce but never told about that?
Ha, todays IRC talk reminded me of one of them, and made me post this very wall of text.
So, there was such thing as FOnline: Battleground back in a days. One map, pewpew, team combat. Simple stuff. My secret stupid idea was to use Hinkley to allow different combat settings - one with TLA rules, one with 2238 rules, one with some custom rules, etc. That should go together with items availability, perks, traits, burst mechanics and whatnot... Yeah.

6. Were you playing the game in your spare time when you don't develop the game? If yes write how and when, if not tell why you weren't playing.
Yeah, for me it was mostly play or dev; or rather - dev a thing and then dev+play it out to catch bugs, annoying things, and a general "feel" of given thing. After feature was settled i either continued to play only or went back to dev another thing. In retrospection, with FOnline i always had more fun from making stuff happen [dev], than using it [play]. Good example for that would be GM commands, which was always high, or medium-high on my priority list, to counter "old" devs which had it bit lower - after all i started as only GM with repo access (until Jovanka took over expanding GM things). It was weirdly rewarding to see events organized by someone else which used stuff i wrote, sometimes in totally different ways than i had in mind.

Would you like to still develop or contribute in some fonline projects?
If only there would be one which would give me such a kick as 2238 did back then, heh.

I kinda still contribute to some of them [read: english ones which are still alive], if they need. Less in writing code, more in digging out source how to make thing happen/not happen, tracking FOnline quirks, and collecting some gems about a whole thing. More one know about FOnline, more chance to get my attention (as question have more chance to be interesting one :P) as i left teaching FOnline basics to people who have more patience than i do. Some of them i learned what i know back in a days, it's their time to shine :)

Anyway. I'd be more interested in taking some older SDK and tune it to devs needs without drastic changes (so completely different way than where cvet is going), than making game itself. But. That's a story for a different time and different dimension~
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 03:14:07 pm by Wipe »
Games are meant to be created, not played...

Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2016, 05:44:45 pm »
dam Lexx your quest ideas are really great and structured.

Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2016, 08:18:27 pm »
Most questions I'd also ask were touched so far.

I still have two questions, though:

I started at OBT3 (or was it 2, dunno anymore) together with a bunch of guys from the FONow German Forum. I remember Lexx beeing helpful by guiding us into the game and all. Was only 1 or 2 weeks and russians took over whole test server basically. Then after this 2238 was born...

...my first question now: At this point (i mean after the last OBT before official servers were started), did you already planned to do 2238 server or was there some kind of motivation in the background that drove you to come up with the idea to split up from TLA server and do your own thingy?

@Wipe goes my second one:

Found dat chess script within the SDK. Were there any plans to implement this in-game? And if so, how would it have look like?

Thanks and greets,

B.


Offline Wipe

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Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2016, 09:27:53 am »
Found dat chess script within the SDK.
Onoz!
Were there any plans to implement this in-game? And if so, how would it have look like?
Heh. It was supposed to create e_desert1-like map, teleport players as bluesuits, make sure they won't be able to attack anything, spawn board and figures using fitting graphics/skins from Fallout (i think there was some setup of some kind for this), and give players -somehow- control over figures. Regular chess game from this point. I wanted to utilize some fancy/random anims, maybe add some effects, etc. Basically porting Battle Chess to FOnline reality :p

There wasn't any place for such thing ingame (maaaybe Hinkley during madness times, but gods, it would be horror to code) so it had to be GM-controlled, at least for spawning/deleting chess map, maybe make it a part of famous npcmap... But. Gave up on whole thing as i couldn't find a good way to control figures... creating custom interface is the only option imho [there was some ~command-based attempt but it sucked big time] but it was and still is a pain in butt. Had some funs writing it (and later reading comments about script "quality" on reddit ;D), but it was mainly done to relax :p
Games are meant to be created, not played...

Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2016, 09:43:40 pm »
Thanks for this insight Wipe :).

Re: Q&A - The development of FOnline: 2238
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2016, 12:01:29 am »
When was the thing, the turning point when you thought to yourself that things went bad/wrong/not to your liking for 2238?

ps. Have you ever figured what happened to Solar or Slim Charles?
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