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[Admiral Zombie]

This will be the first in a series of suggestions all aimed at increasing the variation and number of possible character builds and play styles. More to come in the future.

Well while they're far better than they use to be, there are still a couple perks that I think can stand a little bit buffing and changing. I am not familiar with every single build out there, but I do my own theorycrafting and have heard things. So if there is something I'm wildly wrong about in the usefulness of some perk or trait, don't be afraid to correct/inform me.

All numbers are variable, so avoid saying "Thats OP" if it is just a matter of numbers being too high. It is the base ideas that matter or are interesting.

I don't know how feasible it is in the current system, but I also wouldn't mind seeing just flat new perks and traits. If an idea is good, but the original doesn't need updating, I wouldn't mind seeing some of these ideas as just standalone additions. I'll make a small list of ideas that aren't tied to anything at the very end.

Traits (I'll give a list of buffs(marked with dashes), and then a list of malices(marked with asterisks). Pair them together as seen best.

Bruiser: You essential trade 4 dexterity for 4 strength. The advantages that really comes with it is having 4 more points elsewhere if you want to design your build and you can make use of it that way. But for actual HtH or melee builds, this trait rather sucks and is actually counter productive. At 10 strength it gives a 5 damage buff compared to 10 strength without the trait, which practically nothing.

-HtH and Melee have -20%(40%?) armor reduction (goes into negative?) (My favorite)
-All bonus melee damage is doubled/tripled (including buffs gained by perks. (Math would be either 24 or 36 bonus damage with perks and 10strength)
-Additional 10-20% on critical table. Maybe 5-10% crit chance as well (I don't care much for this one)

* All melee/HtH attacks cost an additional action point (personal favorite, maybe bump it up to 2 additional if the larger damage buffs are chosen)
* Chance to hit is halved

Skilled: This one is a bit harder to write about, simply because I can see people using this trait on occasion. My reason for hating it is more personal as well, I rather hate the idea of having an alt character devoted just to crafting, or an alt character devoted just to lockpicking. Not to mention that these days it is far easier to get profession prerequisites, so even then it is becoming even more useless. So it is quickly becoming a useless trait outside of some builds which in my personal opinion are bad design to have in the first place, and is a rather boring and extremely weak trait at that. I'll give a couple mundane suggestions, following that some slightly more radical ones (which I have doubts whether they would even be able to possibly implement because of code limitations)

-Tag an additional skill (two?)
-Tagged skills increase by three instead of two
-Tagged skills initial bonus is 40% instead of 20%
-I wouldn't mind combining a couple of the above. Tag 4 skills, each increase by 3 points.

* Maintain less perks (bad, but if combined with 2/3 of the above it could permit more varied builds that are about diving through ares/glow. I need to think on that more, and it is still pidgeonholes builds a little too much IMO)
* Less SP gain, -10-20% to all nontagged skills. (Bad again, but might inspire others. Just makes builds more specialized, which people already do to the maximum...

I rather hate all of the above really. Probably perhaps because I can't think of anything that isn't too OP, or isn't just promotes what I hate about the original. Special suggestion below which is rather interesting I think (not sure if it is possible within the coding, a little bit harder and very different at least)

All skills are grouped together into similar categories, such as the below example

small guns
bigs guns
energy weapons

unarmed
melee
throwing

first aid
doctor

sneak
steal

lockpick
Traps

science
repair

Barter
Speech
Gambling

Outdoorsman

Instead of tagging 3 individual, you instead tag a set of skills. So I could tag SG/BG/EW all together, and also tag Lockpick/Traps together, and then tag doctor/first aid together. This permits a more jack of all trades build. Increasing SG by 25% would also raise BG and EW by 25%

The downside can still be the reduced perks (Losing perks is a huge loss, but this would be a huge gain). Alternatives include tagged skills raise by only 1% and you can't raise nontagged skills, or reduction in SP per level (5-10 reduction, ten being interesting because it means you have to have at least 3int)

One-Hander: One hander has a few uses I think, but in pretty much every conventional build it is useless I believe because people will typically be at 150-200% in their weapon stat by that point anyways. The only uses I can think of are some builds that use sneak (not many/all though) and need every skill point they can get, and crafter/temporary alts who just want to be able to hit something a little bit sooner in levels and don't plan to level the character out to the maximum (Similar to the skilled trait, I hate builds like this). I'm just going to combine the bonus/malice for this one since it is more intuitive than most others. This has been a little bit harder to come up ideas for, most I just see being too OP, or just rehashing of other things already done.

- 1H weapons have +10 range, 2H weapons have -10 range. (Should not affect Melee obviously, but what about throwing?)
- Reloading and equipping cost 0AP. 1 additional (2?) for 2H. (Needs more, very weak, what else fits into a similar category as these things?)
- 1H weapons degrade 75% slower, 2H weapons degrade 50% faster (I don't care for things like this, it doesn't really change the way one can play. But then again there are a pretty good amount of perks/traits like that already I guess)

Kamikaze: This is just being mentioned, as I have comments concerning more about AC. As it is now this trait is extremely detrimental. It would be better to fix AC I think than to "fix" this. Comments about AC will be saved for another time however.

Jinxed: Only really useful if combined with in your face perk. It can be infinitely more useful if AC were fixed, but again that is to be saved for another time. As it is now it is only a "troll" perk for scouting/running around naked in PvP areas. There are a lot of interesting ways to handle this perk, but I'll save it for another time. However on idea in particular I have in mind....

Bloody Mess: I realize it is a joke perk, but that doesn't change the fact that it is useless and actually counter productive (I've heard it destroys armor, I don't know about that for sure but I do know you have to pick up items one at a time). Plus there are some interesting things to be done with it

- Chance to reflect 25% (50%?) damage (goes both ways though. Amount reflected is based on damage AFTER your own DR/DT and then must go through target's DR/DT as well, to prevent being too powerful on tanks. Abusable with a high HP but zero DR/DT letting a big gunner burst him. That can be mitigated by limiting return damage based on their current health, such as you may burst someone for 200damage, but they only had 10 hp left + negative HP, so only 30damage is returned. Although I think it is hilarious it might be enough of a problem to shut this idea down.
- At the very least it should affect you as well when you die. It might already, I haven't messed with the perk much myself.

Finesse Something seems broken about it now, or it is useless at the very least. It use to be amazing, but that was back when crit snipers could one hit kill. It probably needs review, but I don't know it well enough to say for sure or to suggest anything.

Perks. Like traits all numbers are variable, it is the general ideas that matter. I'll give a short list of possible ideas, it is not intended for all parts to be implemented obviously

Gain SPECIAL: Except in extremely rare builds I believe (I don't know of any personally) gaining 1 special stat just isn't worth it. I can't think up too many good ideas I would enjoy, but I'll throw a couple out there for others to consider, maybe it will inspire someone with some other idea)

- Straight buff to +2 would be interesting, but this would only really be worth it with for strength, agility, luck, maybe charisma if that had much worth to begin with. The rest require a high amount from level 1 to get their advantages. Not to mention it completely invalidates a few other perks like weapon handling.
- Allow it to go over the 10 limit (WTF would that even lead to? I can't imagine...Although I don't know how useful that would be still, and suffers similar problems to the previous idea)
- Quadruple whatever stat bonus they give to some stat...still very weak. Even if it were x8, at that point people don't need stats that much, or at least it doesn't make that much of a difference that they would spend a perk on it.

Blessed are the weak + Living Anatomy: Blessed are the weak is a decent skill, it isn't amazing like many other perks though is the only thing it suffers from. Living anatomy suffers from being weak overall (5 damage is pretty much nothing. It makes sense to just combine the two, and even then it would be a questionable perk. It is just slightly less questionable.

Healer perks: Like many perks, it isn't absolutely awful and competely devoid of use (hey, that is actually an improvement. Whoever says the devs are killing the game need to shutup). Still, it just doesn't compare to some of the other perks, like toughness, better criticals, etc. Like so many poor builds, this is a perk is typically seen if ever in builds that have a pidgeonhole purpose that are just held on alts (if that even, considering a dedicated healer is better off with toughness to stay alive himself while healing others). Part of the problem is mainly that at level 24, 35-70hp isn't a huge enough benefit for 2 perks, especially consideirng healer builds will typically have enough FA that this amount is pitifully inadequate.

(Note: All of the suggestions here should apply only when healing OTHERS. It would be too easy to just heal yourself and get the buffs)
-Upon being healed, the healed (and healer?) receive a temporary DR/DT buff (abusable, but only in the sense that someone punches an ally, then gets healed and then rushes the enemy. Not that big of a problem, but still a "taking advantage of the system" kind of problem)
-Those recently healed cannot be finished off except by suicide, instead merely sitting in the unconscious negative until either healed, suicide, or timer runs out. To make it clear, being below 0 still takes you out of the fight, you just have a chance to be healed rather than finished off, think of a more useful deadman walking. Timer should be about 1-2 minutes top. Not sure how to incorporate the fact there are 2 tiers to this perk. (Questionable, you can try and set it up in advance to take advantage of it. Not to mention how do NPCs react? Do they just waste all their ammo or recognize the person as being "dead")
-You may heal a different additional person while still on cooldown (adds onto the cooldown timer, similar to crafting adding more)

Fast Reload + Quick Pockets + Quick Recovery Probably should just combine these into a single perk (call it lightning reflexes?)

Dodger I keep bringing up the AC stuff being useless, but I just wanted to make a special note about this perk, it is never ever worth it in any situation. With a requirement of 8AG it gives 20 more AC. Livewire at 8 agility gives 24 AC (more if you have more agility). Both are at level 3.

Stonewall: This perk is probably used fairly often actually, but I just would like to request its requirement be moved down to 5STR. Many builds have 5STR, and it would at least give people pause to think about what perk they want rather than think "well its out of the way and would cost an additional point in strength." This is just a personal peeve though and doesn't compare to the other problem perks I've pointed out.

Finally, new perk/trait suggestions that aren't based on themes/ideas centering around current ones (although I wouldn't mind seeing some of the ideas suggested above implemented as their own independent perk or trait, many of them can fit down here as well.) Most of these are aimed at making new builds/styles viable or available.

Demolition man: (Perks)
On the subject explosive damage and grenades particularly, there are some extremely big drawbacks that they face that make any serious build not very appealing/viable. Limited range, self damage, no means of getting around DR (unless you're a rocketeer). There are some huge advantages, particularly being slightly more spammy than rockets, far cheaper to maintain, and not having to reload. But rocketeers still have minigun alternatives, and one of the longest attack ranges in the game. Overall I just would like to see it made a little bit more viable without resorting to a straight buff. Below are a handful perk ideas, take each as their own independent idea, I'm just listing them all under demolition man since they're all concerning explosive particularly. I have grenades in mind, but some of these will tie into future suggestions I will make, and make defense against rocketry a little bit easier for those willing to get a different perk set.

- Gain 25% DR versus explosive originating from you (point blank shots). A possible (or just combine it into the first) second tier for 10% versus all explosive damage. Point blank shots should be damaging/bad idea, but as it is now it is pretty much always a bad idea since you'll be taking the same amount as your enemy. At least this way you can hope to race them down to 0hp and have a slight lead in a kamikaze style.

- Similar to the above, or incorporating into the above, having armor degrade slower to explosives would help as well. I can't imagine taking this as a perk by itself, but as a support perk perhaps, or combining with another.

- Larger AoE effects. A flat simple upgrade, but rather interesting I think. Whether it should effect all grenades and rockets, or just some grenades, or just rockets, is up to developers. Particularly I had in mind trying to clear out a building that the enemy is holed up in, or if the enemy for whatever reason is too clumped up. As it is now very rarely if ever is the AoE effect making a difference I believe except in PvE (I may be wrong, correct me if I am.) Still good for just shooting into a house you don't have a good angle on.

- Give a -DR for your explosive attacks. Biggest problem explosives suffer is inability to deal with armor. Frag grenades have a habit of dealing only 10-30 damage, delegating them just to being useful for the knockdown only, which is rather boring. It should work against you as well though, just to make things interesting. (Note: I've been testing a critical grenade build that relies on bypasses...It isn't exactly looking good, but for dealing with armored foes I'll get back with more detailed information for grenadiers later)

Weapons Expert (Perk)
-All weapons have a weapons perk of some kind. Existing weapon perks are stronger (this is really powerful, but very interesting.) It would probably have to be a level 18 perk. Think of a minigun with penetrate or knockback, shotguns with longer attack range and/or knockback range, etc. This needs more a lot work, but I have ideas for weapons perk in general to be posted in the next couple days, i'll save it for then and leave this as a teaser

Radiated (Trait? Could be perk)
-Melee and HtH attacks you make and are made against you have a nasty habit of radiating your enemy. The only problem is you're not immune to it yourself. (It should be rather large detriments to your target, 3% or so per attack I think is a decent start.) I'm not sure exactly how radiation affects NPCs but I can see this being useful for PvP if melee ever makes a comeback. Small things like this could help.

Chaotic Damage (Trait...or High tier perk)
"For whatever reason the damage you deal and take has a habit of not making sense. Bullets that burn, rockets hit like a laser, flames that electrocute, it just doesn't make sense." (For a trait, works on attacks that are against you. Makes traits like toughness a little less valuable to you. At the same time enemy toughness isn't quite so perfect as well. For perks, it could just be a level18 perk.

Endless walker (Trait)
There are a few perks that are only good in turn based, so why not a few that are only good in real time? While in combat you cannot run ever. But you do gain AP at the normal rate even while walking. As it is it makes more sense as a trait, a little too powerful to be a perk I think. Combat timer increase might be needed to prevent it being abused a little too much (longer combat timer just for those with this perk? I'm fine with it, might be getting a little too complicated at that point though, if it is even needed.)

Fickle Luck (Trait)
-Whenever you attack, make two luck rolls. 50% chance it will use the better of the two, 50% chance it will use the worse of the two. (Possibly for both chance to crit and crit table?)
-Make two luck rolls, you always get the better of the two. The problem is that so do enemies attacking you (Possibly allow enemies to use your luck against you as well? Would prevent this being too OP considering how many people run around with 1luck)

One with the pack (Perk)
-The biggest baddest dogs of the wastes have a habit of finding and joining your party freely out in the wasteland.
-Requires very high Charisma obviously. Probably level 18 perk. I couldn't find the stats of the mercenary dogs, but just having some kind of dog that is actually useful in a fight would be good (The normal dog page suggests they're weak as hell.) Perhaps give a flat bonus to any dog in your party.
-Dogs joining works as thus: Dogs you find in the wasteland automatically join your party if there is room, and begin fighting those immediately in the area. Every hour (game time? real time? negotiable) a dog will join the party independent of any encounters (And hey, we have that nifty new feature of animals randomly showing up now to work with this, although its possible that they just show up the next time you reload the map). You should obviously have the option to turn them away, and to automatically turn them away if desired.

Penny-Pincher (perk)
-"Although you may not have had working lights...or parents even, you like to imagine that for years they yelled at you to turn out those lights and stop wasting energy."
-Energy weapon ammo has a 33% chance to not be consumed on use. (I think it should stay in the ammo clip  rather than exiting to inventory like flint/primitive weapons, negotiable)

More to come in the future. If devs could share as well things that are coding limitations that would very nice.

[Floodnik]

Didn't read, but good idea.
I mean we need more variety of course. And I'm still for buffing critical HtH users(not the knockdown heavy handed guys).
About Gain SPECIAL: You've got this, or you've got action boy(+1 AP which is basically +2 SPECIAL) or weapon handling(also acts as +2 SPECIAL, you don't care about carry weight with fighting builds) Why would anyone take Gain SPECIAL, really? Do something with those perks or remove them .

[jack555]

how about a trait (DeathSpay) it allows wider splash dmg from mini guns and avengers etc. but give 10% to who ever it hits

[Swinglinered]

Perhaps allow the Mutate Perk as many times as Gain SPECIAL is available.

Each time you can add, remove, or change a trait.

If available starting at Lv3, you could add 8 traits!

Or just use it to get rid of Finesse on a messed up build.

Adding a bunch of traits would at least be fun for RP.
 

[Sarakin]

I managed to read through your fantasies unlike others. Perks/Traits add variability to character building which is always a good thing, but the more perks/traits you got, the harder it is to balance them. And 2238 doesnt have the devpower to attend perk/traits balancing at the moment.

Bruiser is good for non-combat alts, where you dont need APs, but more SPECIAL helps. You stated correctly that it doesnt help close combat chars. But I fear that in current state of close combat chars, your bruiser proposition would only promote bs hth trolls.

Skilled is as well as bruiser good for non-combat alts where perks are not an issue. Honestly, your proposition wouldnt change a thing if you insist on perk reducing and if you want to reduce non-tagged skills gain, it would make this trait a must-have.

One-hander helps min-maxed characters where every skillpoints squeezed in help. On the side note, it just promotes dedicated alts. You need to find out better solution than those you suggested, they are more or less the same.

Kamikaze seems ok to me, talking about fixing something that isnt broken is weird.

Jinxed should go, its just for trolling.

Bloody Mess is useless, but harmless. I dont know how did you come up with reflect damage in relation of this trait, it just doesnt make sense.


Gain SPECIAL is bad perk, because there are only 8 perks to choose from and such it makes a waste of perk. +2 is nonsense, over 10 is OKish.  Imo Gain perks should be available from lvl 3.

Blessed are the weak is OK, I wouldnt really merge it with current LA

Living Anatomy I would make that +5 dmg able to crit, so it might be interesting for single shotters. But then again, JovankaB? mentioned that it shouldnt be a combat perk. Maybe remove +5 dmg and then merge it with BatW

Healer seems boring to me, you can completely replace it with more skill points in FA. I liked your suggestions with temportal DR/DT buff or being able to heal someone with ongoing cooldown.

Fast Reload + Quick Pockets together yes, but no Quick Recovery. Quick Recovery is decent itself.

Dodger is weak, I agree. Livewire should be 2,5x AGI, dodger 25 and dodger+ 30 AC.

Stonewall - Personally, I like how it needs 6 STR so you need to make a compromise if you want to take it. The problem is there arent many guns with high STR requirement and when I say high, I mean really high - 8/9/10. Then it would make sense to raise STR so high and get this perk along.


Demolition man - more love for grenades wouldnt hurt. Bigger AoE sounds good, they would have their role.

Weapon master is too much work if you ask me.

Radiated is a big NO. If the radiation doses will be small, theres no point to take it, if high, it would annoy the hell out of players. Anything that involves radiation is going to be sooner or later abused by trolls.

Chaotic Damage - I really like this one, though, it can be very hard to balance.

Endless walker has fancy name, but the trade-off is really high, I cant imagine why would anyone take it.

Fickle Luck reminds me an inverted Jinxed. Cant say if the game would benefit from having this trait.

One with the pack - Dont like this one. You get something for nothing, ideal deal for trolls. Gather several dogs, unleash them in town, PROFIT.

Penny-Pincher is good one. Can be interesting with guns with small magazines.

[Admiral Zombie]

You hit perfectly upon some of my own thoughts (particularly about the skilled trait) but others you are a little to ambiguous. I've said a couple times, but many ideas I'll throw out even if I don't care for them if only because it might inspire something different. And I would agree that most of these are probably fantasy ideas that the devs would never implement...but I can still hope.

Can you mention some of these "troll builds" and what makes them troll builds? Because I'm not particularly seeing how some of them like the DR reduction for hth with bruiser, at most the 3rd option but just having a crippler hth isn't at all really a "trolling" build imo.



Many of the things I promoted were ones that would hopefully put less emphasis on the skill points (with the exception of the skilled perk suggestion.) As you said yourself, the one hander trait currently is used for alts and people who are trying to min/max their skill points, which is frankly very boring. Hence the suggestions like +/- attack range which would have an affect all the way to level 24 even, and be independent of boring skill % numbers.

The idea that came to mind for bloody mess was the idea of just causing damage all around, spilling a lot of extra blood on both sides (hence reflect) at least that was the inspiration and I admit it is very different from the original.

I would second the gain SPECIAL perks at least being moved to level 3 or 6. It is a very good idea and start.

As far as all of the AC perks/traits, I have problems/opinions about AC builds general, but those are mostly more personal and I know there are a very few builds that can make use of them. I think it would be better to first address AC and its purpose and then determine what to do with the traits and perks for it. But that is worth a whole different thread on its own.

I suggest stonewall being lowered, because there are enough decent perks for it to compete with as it is, so having to go out of your way for SPECIAL seems like overkill.

I figure for radiation, something like 0.75% per punch (4.75 or so with 2ap punches) and then perhaps a 3-5% to your killer if you die at point blank range. That would be enough to start lowing SPECIAL, and only if you actually manage to get all of your punches off. I'm skeptical of the dying part, and the "to your killer only" would be meant to slow/stop the troll builds.

One with the pack was just more of a spur of the moment idea that came to mind. I mainly had the thought to promote companion builds in some way. More work is need obviously, but considering it would be a level 15 or 18 perk (which are typically very valuable) and that dogs normally cost only 50caps otherwise I believe, it just means you don't have to constantly go to the otherside of the worldmap to rebuy dogs if thats what you're into.