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Author Topic: Where is action these days ?  (Read 26177 times)

Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2013, 08:35:42 pm »

Huh? What are you talking about?

Lots of interesting features ... when new players don't even meet other players in game and feel like it is deserted and long time experienced players don't even know what most of the players in the server do and can't interact with them. When I say proper activities, it doesn't have to be in pew-pew 2D shooter manner, if there would be something that would encourage me to not shoot players inside cities, but actually interact with them (and them have a reason to come to cities, not just in fear of getting shot) ... that would be fucking gold for me.
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JovankaB

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Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2013, 08:45:40 pm »

But they have fun together hunting raiders, shoveling shit, exploring etc.
I doubt they would want to play against your proxy apes, because they
don't play often enough to be competitive.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 08:48:17 pm by JovankaB »
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Surf

  • Moderator
  • это моё.
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Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2013, 08:46:44 pm »

Here is 6 hour stream from what seems to be casual newbies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPtsRn4kFE0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S67pZ2einUY


These videos are obviously fake, everyone knows there are no women on the internet. :P
Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2013, 08:47:45 pm »

But they have fun together hunting raiders, shoveling shit, exploring etc.
I doubt they would want to play against your proxy apes, because they
don't play often enough to be competitive.

I doubt you even read what I said.
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BenKain

  • Independent Developer
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Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2013, 08:48:35 pm »

but actually interact with them (and them have a reason to come to cities, not just in fear of getting shot) ... that would be fucking gold for me.
Then go to the Hub and hand out some leather jackets and hunting rifles. Then you will see these "mysterious" players that you don't see because you stay in the northern towns fapping at previews of Reno.
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JovankaB

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Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2013, 08:49:22 pm »

I never felt encouraged to shoot random people in leather jackets shoveling shit in Modoc
or trading their mausers in shops. Maybe it's something about you.
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Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2013, 08:56:14 pm »

Then go to the Hub and hand out some leather jackets and hunting rifles. Then you will see these "mysterious" players that you don't see because you stay in the northern towns fapping at previews of Reno.

Wasteland is largely empty, it would be nice to see life in other towns and have all these faction related activities have some more sense.

If, for example, TC rewards were cut down and based only on the amount of other players trading in the cities, mining and doing such activities, apes would be encouraged to be friendly and not shoot every single player they see, they would have a real reason ...

I never felt encouraged to shoot random people in leather jackets shoveling shit in Modoc
or trading their mausers in shops. Maybe it's something about you.

not just your own preference.
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Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2013, 09:05:15 pm »

Well I was quite surprised that server's population comprises of Loch Ness players in more than 60-70%, especially when considering the fact that it used to be called a faction mod.

Probably because there are not enough end-game activities.

What are "end-game activities" here anyway, aside from town control?
Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2013, 09:09:53 pm »

Not sure, they are saying casual game-style, questing and hunting together and ... yeah. Dunno.
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Nice_Boat

  • I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.
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Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2013, 09:15:36 pm »

Lack? Of Proper?! Activities!?!?!? Have you played the actual game? I'm not talking about you going out to farm some gatling lasers than going to Reno, no I'm talking about the quests and other systems. There are a lot of really interesting features that you are demonizing for no reason, and you continue to attack people who enjoy the game for casual purposes. Not all of us fully understand the methods to the Town Control madness, and people like you are the ones making it impossible to do so. Please stop trying to force your foolish one-track mind on the rest of the community. It's becoming extremely grating.

From a "playing to win" perspective, people doing those "casual" activities are at the bottom of the food chain. So yeah, there's no reason to get angry because what T-888 is saying is right - people doing the quests and other similar stuff have absolutely no way of influencing the gameworld when compared to PvP players. Hell, it's so bad most PvP players aren't even aware of their existence.

Keep in mind I'm not trying to insult anyone, it's just a simple fact that the game is extremely unbalanced and PvP players have more influence than a person doing any other activity can ever hope to achieve. If you want to be a peaceful trader, well too bad - you're going to earn more doing TC, you lose the competition. If you want to run a protection/mercenary business - nope, out of luck, any bored group of PvP'ers is going to do that better than you. If you want to be the industrialist - nah bro, not going to happen, the PvP gangs have the logistics to raid the facilities with more efficiency. Even if you want to farm stuff and do PvE, you can rest assured that the despised PvP apes are doing it more efficiently.

Basically, setting up the logistics for serious, TC-tier PvP is like "godmode 1" if you were to enter any kind of competition with people doing basically anything else, so why should T-888 appreciate your "proper activities" if they offer shitty returns in terms of caps/items/power projection when compared to what he does? Why should any ambitious, intelligent player focus on anything else or care about anything else? Yes, you can enjoy other aspects of the game, but making them your primary point of focus is going to end with you trying to navigate around the PvP players, not the other way around. Basically, if you think you're going to achieve any degree of success (wealth, influence, freedom to do what you want) in this game by doing something other than PvP, you're a scrub. PvP players don't care about people doing "other activities," because for them, any encounter with a scrub means -40 rounds of 5mm ammo and +1 frag, while the scrubs have to waste massive amounts of time to navigate around the dreaded PvP apes to do whatever's on their mind. So maybe it's not the PvP players who have a problem with "foolish one-track" thinking, maybe it's the game that is simply too foolish and too one-tracked?

All in all, the devs really should consider buffing other activities, outside the TC sphere. Buff farming, buff trading, buff production - allow people who put some time and effort into those aspects of the game to become more effective than TC gangs in their field of choice. Right now, people who win at TC win at everything else. Introduce some other ways of winning, but don't do that by nerfing TC - do that by expanding the gameplay mechanics and adding some alternatives. The current "you're good at fighting, you're good at everything else" model sucks and makes people who could become influential traders or industrialists hunt radscorpions and hide in their caves doing meaningless quests.

Also, some mandatory reading to understand the PvP player mentality and why we're right and you're wrong:
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 09:23:52 pm by Nice_Boat »
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Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2013, 09:25:01 pm »

Nicely written, I didn't thought about the subject from such a perspective.

I might that add that not only "the rest of the game" needs a buff and improvements, but also everything concerning town control, PvP activities needs some nerf. The town control box was completely out of control this session which gave immense amount of advantage to PvP players, previously it wasn't that bad as far as I know. When you look at your 45k buffout in the base, there's like no way to even consider any alternatives how to play differently.
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Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2013, 09:28:13 pm »

Conclusions:
- 10% are NCR idlers,
- less than 20% are active TC/PvP factions,
- the whole rest - casuals who only craft and go on PvE hunting

So, there is absolutely no reason to make a conspiracy theory.

Some of us reject PvP too due to issues in balancing; things like combat armor being thin as tissue paper versus a bluesuit using a throwing knife or a grease gun. Things like 1 on 1 looking like too fair of a fight, so the other guy has to bring in their dual-log(s). Why throw away good equipment in situations where there's no reward for fighting and everything to gain by taking "evasive action"?
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Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2013, 09:39:44 pm »

So, there is always some percent of cheaters due to flawed game mechanics which both encourage it and allows it and they always been somehow tolerated, even now with all the improvements. There's no perfect system for that, you have to deal with it in your own way.

things like combat armor being thin as tissue paper versus a bluesuit using a throwing knife or a grease gun.

?
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JovankaB

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Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2013, 09:40:05 pm »

Also, some mandatory reading to understand the PvP player mentality and why we're right and you're wrong:
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

If understood this, the scrub term applies to competitive players who go apeshit when someone uses "cheap" tactics. I think it actually applies mostly to our "pro" PvP players who keep whining about swarms, bombers, trolls and so on. It doesn't make any sense to apply this term to a bunch of "invisible" guys who just hang around together and shoot scorpions with their hunting rifles once in a week. They have different kind of fun, and I don't think such people really complain. Once they get bored, they simply stop playing without any rage posts on the forum. It may be hard to understand for someone who is focused on competition and beating the shit out of other people, but some people just enjoy other stuff.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 09:47:29 pm by JovankaB »
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Re: Where is action these days ?
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2013, 09:47:47 pm »

The problem is that these Loch Ness players (now more than half of server's population) never emerge from the depths, because they are not encouraged to.

Btw where does your hatred towards people playing pvp in your game come from? I'm asking because it reeks of butthurt in here and the stench is.. overwhelming.
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