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[Linoleum]

Just passed BoS while heading to the Hub, and thought why the hell wouldn't the brotherhood of freaking steel not have an advanced workbench?  The last bastion of technology in the wastes pumping out PA and high tech weapons would need one!  So why not make it a perk for joining the BoS faction?

And, to add to the challenge and make it reasonably difficult, it could only be accessible with a certain amount of rep AND after a reasonably difficult combat or gathering quest.

Like get 10 dogtags from enclave troops, or collect 3000 MFC, and have a rep over 1500.

Thoughts?

[JovankaB]

Just passed BoS while heading to the Hub, and thought why the hell wouldn't the brotherhood of freaking steel not have an advanced workbench?

Because the advanced workbenches are supposed to be in unsafe locations and it's not
a big deal to join BoS with a crafter. Of course you could argue why then it's available in
gunrunners as long as you haul a box to a safe town a few times? This is a good
question and I don't really think it should stay this way. IMO instead of the package hauling
it would be better to have some repeatable quest with killing mob(s) in instanced location
by the crafter (where you can't acompanny it with alts, so similar to the quest in the
cathedral). It would be ideal if you have to risk the materials, so maybe the advanced
workbench should be inside the instanced PvE location instead of gunrunners.

[T-888]

It would be ideal if you have to risk the materials, so maybe the advanced
workbench should be inside the instanced PvE location instead of gunrunners.

The whole point of having a workbench in Gunrunners was that it is safe, but you have to earn the right to use it. Fine concept if you ask me, the same could be applied to Brotherhood of Steel and Enclave to have some variety.

We have unguarded mines and guarded, safe workbench and not safe. What do you want to change?

This is a good question and I don't really think it should stay this way.

Why?

[Linoleum]

How about a pay-per-use system?

One enclave dogtag per entry to the room?  Enclave encounters are still pretty goddamn tough on your own (at least in my experience, I'm sure others can probably solo it with their eyes closed... but those kinds of people can usually handle getting to the unsafe ones anyway).

This of course would only be useful if dogtags spawned on death instead of just being in their inventory though (bit like how armour drops)

[Trokanis]

I have to agree with T-888, why so much hate towards crafting?  I mean it's already a ridiculous system with everything combined, and you want to punish players even more by taking away the only safe place to craft higher stuff?  To get the rep for Gunrunners you have to either have a gang so you can run the Guard quest, or run boxes til you go blind, and you still have to maintain that reputation once you get it.  Tack that on with everything else and it really seems you're trying to convince people Not to craft.  Which wouldn't be so bad if the better mid level items hadn't been removed from everything except the highest tier combat encounters.  IMHO, loot and crafting in the previous seasons was not bad, let alone broken.

About putting it into BoS.  Just because someone is part of the faction does not mean the can access it, make it so once they join they have to do quests and such just like Gunrunners to be able to access the BoS high tech area.

Still don't understand the hate...

[JovankaB]

To get the rep for Gunrunners you have to either have a gang so you can run the Guard quest, or run boxes til you go blind, and you still have to maintain that reputation once you get it.

And yet you defend the system, although instead of "going blind" with grinding reputation it could
be a simple repeatable PvE instance for the crafter that you enter when you need to craft the HQ
things. Funny. Sometimes I think players have some kind of weird complex where the victims can't
imagine life without their oppressors anymore.

[T-888]

Wait, having a repeatable quest as an instance to earn the reputation is a good option, just not that the workbench would be actually be there in the instance, otherwise it would lose the whole point of having them tied to Gunrunners or any kind of faction.

You previously stated.

It would be ideal if you have to risk the materials, so maybe the advanced
workbench should be inside the instanced PvE location instead of gunrunners.

[Trokanis]

And yet you defend the system, although instead of "going blind" with grinding reputation it could
be a simple repeatable PvE instance for the crafter that you enter when you need to craft the HQ
things. Funny. Sometimes I think players have some kind of weird complex where the victims can't
imagine life without their oppressors anymore.

I don't quite understand, I defended the Current system yes.  I called in to question the apparent need to continue to remove things from players.  I then suggested a parallel with the current Gunrunners workbench to the proposed BoS workbench, as a counterpoint to your statement about how easy it is to become a member of the BoS.  Though making the BoS require questing similar to the Gunrunners probably defeats the attempt of this suggested addition to the game, other than the BoS base is a little closer to civilization.

Things were really not that bad in previous seasons, and it raises a fair amount of concern in me as to this mindset of needing to continue to nerf things.  We all understand the crafting/gathering system needs tweaking, I just hope it can be done without taking more things from the players.

[JovankaB]

Wait, having a repeatable quest as an instance to earn the reputation is a good option, just not that the workbench would be actually be there in the instance, otherwise it would lose the whole point of having them tied to Gunrunners or any kind of faction.

Actually possible solutions are rather easy to imagine, you just need some imagination
for that. E.g. gunrunners wouldn't allow anyone unless they were proven to be worthy
- with entrance to small "instanced dungeon" undergrounds in the gunrunner shop and
exit on the island. You could go back by simply talking to the soldier on the bridge.

Although I suppose logging off on island should kick you to WM, or you could bring more
mats with non-crafter.

Alternative could be "Hell no, we don't allow strangers to use our advanced equipment,
but you know what, in bunker below there is one workbench we don't use - if you manage
to survive there, then go ahead.".

[Trokanis]

So you're saying an instanced area with an Adv. Workbench, just like SAD, and Mariposa, except you need to have good standing with Gunrunners to get in?  Seems a little redundant.  Unless of course it's single person/group, similar to say the Dog's of LA quest.  That isn't so bad and it would at least help inspire crafters to be able to use a weapon.  Gotta kill them damn rats/deathclaws somehow.

Edited while you were posting Jovanka, sorry wasn't fast enough, I see what you were saying.

[JovankaB]

So you're saying an instanced area with an Adv. Workbench, just like SAD, and Mariposa, except you need to have good standing with Gunrunners to get in?  Seems a little redundant.

SAD and Mariposa are not instanced, you can meet hostile players there so the players play
the role of the "danger" factor - something which the Gunrunner WB lacks (it has only boring
grindig reputation factor). I mean PvE location for one player (crafter) that you enter through
a dialog like the rat quest in the cathedral.

[Trokanis]

As I put in my edited one just above, I see what you're saying, and that makes sense.  Considering my crafters are combat also I think it's a neat idea to sorta fight through the underbelly of LA to get to a Workbench.  And it doesn't take away the 'safe' one, (safe in this case referencing not being camped by other players)

[T-888]

"danger" factor - something which the Gunrunner WB lacks

No, it doesn't lack it, it is supposed to be an alternative to unguarded locations which possess any kind of threat.

You can add another option on how to gain the reputation, to gain access to the workbench by completing a PvE instance, but the workbench itself should be in secure location.

[Marko]

A quest enc with an advanced workbench sounds good. Adding it to the existing options sounds good. I personally have a boycott on the GR case quest. I had my worst losses crafting at GR - worse than all other locations combined, so i refuse to craft at GR. I consider it the least safe place of all, even though players keep saying it's the safest, and losing a case adds insult to the grind injury, so forget that noise.

The existing tier 2 crafting system forces crafters to collide with fighters. Some would say that is realistic. Okay, but a tier 2 crafter would make his own adv.bench - that's realistic too but not allowed. So i say forcing crafters to collide with fighters is NOT balanced for that reason. Thus, if you add Jovanka's idea, crafters have a PvE encounter where they can craft (if they survive). This would be much, much better.

[Roachor]

Yeah current system requires me to take a combat alt, clear the way for my crafter, log the crafter, make whatever, relog the combat, clear the area again, relog the crafter, run out. It's annoying and a huge time sink, not having shit to do in game ins't improved by making what little there is to do pointlessly waste time.