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[Gimper]

This is still a stupid idea. No one would use a 5 hex ranged big gun for pvp even if it *WAS* buffed. Still, I disagree.

[Sarakin]

Damage resistance increased by toughness and psycho also affects fire resistance.

Wrong. Get your facts straight before arguing.

[Blerter]

Then it needs a maximum of 35% DR reduction, and a 100% knockdown chance.

[Roachor]

FYI improved flamer, fast shot and 2x pyro with mk2 ammo and 2 shots can kill a 290 hp tank, but just barely. Imo pyro should add to critical chance as well, maybe 10% each.

[Blerter]

Fast shot doesnt work with flamer and it shoulden't as there is no ill effects because you can not aim anyway, also
you said 2 shots will kill a 290 hp tank, well it won't (35% DR) with CAmkII and the max damage with a flamer so 165 - 35% = 107.5
2 shots = 107.5 x 2 (215) and there is still 75 hp left despite the 20 or 40 neg health, that also means 14 or 12 AP and also will take alot of time to burst 2wice, time in which they can burst you. Pyro should deduct 15% of DR for each level of pyro (total 30%) which leaves 5% DR left and IMP flamer should have auto knockdown for those 2 burst fires.

[Roachor]

Fast shot doesnt work with flamer and it shoulden't as there is no ill effects because you can not aim anyway, also
you said 2 shots will kill a 290 hp tank, well it won't (35% DR) with CAmkII and the max damage with a flamer so 165 - 35% = 107.5
2 shots = 107.5 x 2 (215) and there is still 75 hp left despite the 20 or 40 neg health, that also means 14 or 12 AP and also will take alot of time to burst 2wice, time in which they can burst you. Pyro should deduct 15% of DR for each level of pyro (total 30%) which leaves 5% DR left and IMP flamer should have auto knockdown for those 2 burst fires.

fast shot adds 5 damage after dt/dr is calculated, so does pyromaniac. Those values bypass armour, +45 to whatever is calculated.

[falloutdude]

just increase damage so It is a guaranteed 2 hit death. The way I see is like this
guy with flamer see's some dude with a avenger
guy with avenger is 20 hex away
guy with avenger allready can fire and will atleast twice before flamer guy gets there
if flamer guy gets in range and survives the 2 burst of avenger dude then he really be dealing some serious damage.
flamer guy just went through hell to get to the avenger dude so avenger dude should be fucked when flamer guy gets there.

[Reconite]

Regular flamer is a farming weapon, the Improved one should be pvp-viable. Make them both cost -1 AP to fire, give the Improved one a knockdown effect and more damage.

I'd go into more detail as I've had several experimental Flamer builds (of many different varieties) in FOnline over the wipes and can certainly provide an informative view on the subject but it's just not worth the trouble for something that will most likely be ignored.

Are Molotovs fire damage type weapons yet? Or are the two levels of Pyromaniac literally only useful for the two Flamers only. It's really bad design to have 2 levels of a perk go to waste for one specific build which doesn't even fucking do anything.

Add some Incendiary ammo or some shit, just do something to make Fire work. If you added 7.62 incendiary rounds or something silly like 14mm Incendiary, they would have value purely because Pyromaniac exists and it goes towards a completely different DT/DR type than the Normal rounds, which can be better or worse for some armors. There is heavy logic in a sidegrades system that you (the devs) keep turning a blind eye to.

What is with this stubbornness to add content and bring life into unused builds? It's been like this for as long as I remember. It takes like less than 5 minutes to add Incendiary ammo or something and I already know for sure that it won't break shit, I've done it myself in the FOnline SDK.

It took you this long to get off your ass and do something to shotguns that made them marginally better than they were before, after claims about the Sawed-off Shotgun being as good as the Avenger Minigun. Please don't let this same dreadful wait for Flamers to become usable happen because you have too much pride to fix the problem.

[Blerter]

So true man he has the idea! this thread might be the push devs need!

[Reconite]

Regular flamer is a farming weapon, the Improved one should be pvp-viable. Make them both cost -1 AP to fire, give the Improved one a knockdown effect and more damage.

I'd go into more detail as I've had several experimental Flamer builds (of many different varieties) in FOnline over the wipes and can certainly provide an informative view on the subject but it's just not worth the trouble for something that will most likely be ignored.

Are Molotovs fire damage type weapons yet? Or are the two levels of Pyromaniac literally only useful for the two Flamers only. It's really bad design to have 2 levels of a perk go to waste for one specific build which doesn't even fucking do anything.

Add some Incendiary ammo or some shit, just do something to make Fire work. If you added 7.62 incendiary rounds or something silly like 14mm Incendiary, they would have value purely because Pyromaniac exists and it goes towards a completely different DT/DR type than the Normal rounds, which can be better or worse for some armors. There is heavy logic in a sidegrades system that you (the devs) keep turning a blind eye to.

What is with this stubbornness to add content and bring life into unused builds? It's been like this for as long as I remember. It takes like less than 5 minutes to add Incendiary ammo or something and I already know for sure that it won't break shit, I've done it myself in the FOnline SDK.

It took you this long to get off your ass and do something to shotguns that made them marginally better than they were before, after claims about the Sawed-off Shotgun being as good as the Avenger Minigun. Please don't let this same dreadful wait for Flamers to become usable happen because you have too much pride to fix the problem.

Hi, I'm bumping this because I think it should be thought about as it's clearly the solution to any problems the Improved Flamer and Pyromaniac have.

[Blerter]

In NCR someone shot a leather armored person with 196 hp 4 times with an improved flamer and they didnt die, he managed to last enough for 28 ap and still didnt even kill the person, what reconite says is a good solution

[Kibrul]

Yep the improved flamer need a buff. But the standard flamer is perfect for farm.
I agree that the molotov must be buffed by Pyromaniac.
Why not add a burning sword like in fallout 3 ? http://www.gameranx.com/images/updates/1294927246-sheeshkebab.jpg[/li][/list]

[Wind_Drift]

Yep the improved flamer need a buff. But the standard flamer is perfect for farm.
I agree that the molotov must be buffed by Pyromaniac.
Why not add a burning sword like in fallout 3 ? http://www.gameranx.com/images/updates/1294927246-sheeshkebab.jpg[/li][/list]

Lets add a Fat Man while we're at it!   

Flamers could use some love for sure.  At the moment they're good for leveling and that's about it.  I highly doubt we'll ever see them in PvP, even with a buff.  So the value of buffing them is subjective at best.

[JovankaB]

claims about the Sawed-off Shotgun being as good as the Avenger Minigun

Quotation please.

Anyway, personally I have an idea how to improve flamer (it has something to do with food and frying pans).

[Dark.]

A nice buff may be a new Perk for the Flamer. Such as "Burn" or "Blaze" which takes 3 hp each second for 10 seconds (charter gets ablazed). Or something like that, and the effect could be healed only with 100% or upper Doc Skill.