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[maszrum]

TC fights becomes way to schematic. We are coping same scenarios over and over again.. its strictly related to TC zones. In our (pvp players) opinion we should change something.

we have two options
1) make entire map as TC zone
2) change existing zones

for example

Gecko:


Klamath:

[dskpnk]

Agreed

[Kilgore]

1) make entire map as TC zone

[maszrum]

making whole map as a zone have some pros and cons
for sure that option ll give us a lot of tactical options, but its can be also problematic.. some gangs can camp grids or take fucked up positions for defence - for example top right corner of gecko map.

[Kilgore]

then you can restart timer to force them to move outta there or fight.

camping grids is an issue because of fastrelog and mainly by the fact that server isn't wiped every several months so now everyone has a shitload of alts and stuff for them. not to mention alts for slaves/mercs/etc. we've got the same thing with that as in previous session, so apparently, changes in merc/slaves mechanics brought nothing, as it's all matter of resources.

and nobody cares about capturing the town for profit, only for fight.

there were never any good sinks of items/caps in 2238 so I guess the only option here to deal with factions accumulating nearly endless amounts of stuff is to have server wipes scheduled.

[T-888]

then you can restart timer to force them to move outta there or fight.

Yeah and that is waiting, wasting time, it's better not to allow such situations to happen in first place. Look on how fights revolve around in Gecko when enemy camps reactor, it's just trying to catch them off at some grid and every time it's the same strategy, because attacking them inside is just wrong from every perspective.

camping grids is an issue because of fastrelog and mainly by the fact that server isn't wiped every several months so now everyone has a shitload of alts and stuff for them. not to mention alts for slaves/mercs/etc. we've got the same thing with that as in previous session, so apparently, changes in merc/slaves mechanics brought nothing, as it's all matter of resources.

and nobody cares about capturing the town for profit, only for fight.

Disagreed, we will have situations where gangs will camp grids and try to capture cities, not everyone has a lot of stuff and if the server is wiped and resources are scarce, we would be in a situation where players basically troll with timer. Sit near grid and see if someone comes, if not the city is their, else they will try to do the same elsewhere until they succeed.

It was already like that with influence system, players camping grids as soon as enemy shows up => world map. Maybe you didn't experience it, no offense, I just remember BBS quite inactive in that time.

there were never any good sinks of items/caps in 2238 so I guess the only option here to deal with factions accumulating nearly endless amounts of stuff is to have server wipes scheduled.

Agreed, though the situation is improved, I'd not say current mercenary system changes aren't pointless, it's very good money sink and caps are more scarce then previous session, just the resources obtained by Town Control are too much. Even if the server is periodically wiped, you can gather so much resources from towns in short period of time, if your one of the top dogs of TC with ease.

Simple reduction of town control resources gained in first weeks/month should do the trick just fine to never allow for factions to get "overfed."

anyway



last minute improvements before msh made topic, just some corner cut off witch doesn't serve any real purpose and some zone added so it's possible to take some closer position near forest zone and use building as cover, also the ruins below the expanded forest area are left out just to make it a dedicated point for attackers to start off some sort of offensive.

Lots of corners cut to reduce the amount of possible buildings to camp, just because Klamath is a very large map and much space to cover before it's even possible to locate the opponents.

[Kilgore]

Well, year ago I've suggested TC system which requires actually being in town to generate any resources and "guard the town", but they implemented toilet control instead of it.

To prevent leaving chars and going afk while resources are generated, some actions to do inside of town would be required also.
But huh, no one is interested in touching TC scripts anyway so all you can expect are probably few map fixes here and there and disabling TC zones entirely which is still better than what we've got now (and is totally old since it was chosen by players 2.5 years ago).

Also:
http://www.gingersoftware.com/english-online/spelling-book/confusing-words/which-witch

[T-888]

Aren't TC zones set through mapper? Not sure how it works, so question is does it really require scripts? As stated before, entire map = bad, most of the map = good.

To prevent leaving chars and going afk while resources are generated, some actions to do inside of town would be required also.

Yeah, but sadly nobody has came up with anything good. Solar talked about some cow guarding and stuff nobody liked, haven't heard anything better, or maybe ... there was Avv who suggested that TC resources are distributed through NPC's inside city, flexible dialogue options to choose from what resources to take and that they wouldn't stack up. So, you couldn't accumulate large amount of resources in given time, you'd have to at least talk to those bots and do it periodically to benefit from that, it would force a bit more presence inside city. Besides that nothing much.

[DocAN.]

TC Chest Box:
- no caps
- no ammo
- no drugs

insted of it:
- resource to craft above

IT will prevent overfed and will generate more interactions from factions in advanced workbench places.

[Kilgore]

Yeah, but sadly nobody has came up with anything good. Solar talked about some cow guarding and stuff nobody liked, haven't heard anything better, or maybe ... there was Avv who suggested that TC resources are distributed through NPC's inside city, flexible dialogue options to choose from what resources to take and that they wouldn't stack up. So, you couldn't accumulate large amount of resources in given time, you'd have to at least talk to those bots and do it periodically to benefit from that, it would force a bit more presence inside city. Besides that nothing much.

1. Remove timer,
2. Add a global announcement when a faction captures the town (via dialogue, like now), visible for 30/60 seconds,
3. Keep requirements to capture the town as they are now (equipment + several members),
4. Change TC zones so you don't have to look for factions hidden in a toilet,
5. Spawn stuff (low amount) in the locker every 15 minutes, and the first time it's spawned 15 minutes after starting to "guard",
6. When guarding faction gets killed or leaves the town, it's no longer guarded (pipboy -> None) and no resources are generated.

So:
- you have an announcement "hey we are in a certain town, equipped and ready to fight" seen by everyone because of the message and the change inside pipboy,
- you cannot hide your faction in a building,
- you actually need to stay there to get a reward,
- if you go afk, someone will come and kill you with no effort and you will have no reward, but only losses. There is no militia so it's even easier than it was previously,
- hopefully no trolling with "hit&run" tactics (faction appears in the town, takes it, grabs stuff and runs to safety) because they have to stay there for 15 minutes to get anything.

You can even disable the whole thing for 8 hours when there is the lowest number of players in game so there are no brave night warriors taking the towns in the night. Just for christ's sake no 1-hour long TC windows because this is as boring as alliance fights (yep I know msh loves it ).

Last time TC zones were created they were discussed on irc with the most active factions so it's not a problem if someone from the devteam actually WANTS to do that, and also fix all small and bigger bugs which would appear later.

Reward is a different thing and can be discussed.

[maszrum]

Sounds quite intresting.

Season lasts for almost one year. Gangs dont care about reward becouse they have almost everyIthing what they need, so reward should be really nice and encurage to come for TC. I like some randomnesswith small chance roll to get some hightech shit.

there is only problem with time zones and night gangs.

[Roachor]

Sounds quite intresting.

Season lasts for almost one year. Gangs dont care about reward becouse they have almost everyIthing what they need, so reward should be really nice and encurage to come for TC. I like some randomnesswith small chance roll to get some hightech shit.

there is only problem with time zones and night gangs.

the reward is being able to tell people that you are the most badass in forum

[T-888]

1. Remove timer,
2. Add a global announcement when a faction captures the town (via dialogue, like now), visible for 30/60 seconds,
3. Keep requirements to capture the town as they are now (equipment + several members),
4. Change TC zones so you don't have to look for factions hidden in a toilet,
5. Spawn stuff (low amount) in the locker every 15 minutes, and the first time it's spawned 15 minutes after starting to "guard",
6. When guarding faction gets killed or leaves the town, it's no longer guarded (pipboy -> None) and no resources are generated.

Sure, nice way on how to limit factions of over-eating resources, beacon is there, also timer isn't necessary and the faction which is present is in control of the town. Concept makes sense, the only thing I am worried about is that the "action" you are talking about is still just standing, it was like that on influence system, just hours of boredom, waiting, being alerted for long time and prepared for action is quite brain damaging. That of course was mostly because of beacon not working and there was no indication of presence, and if there isn't with all the beacon, why not put group of alts with low tier gear and protect them by some sneakers, while real force is on world map?

My point is that the resources obtained should be based on how large of a player group, how well equipped the force "protecting, being in control" is, if not more resources then at least reduced time needed to obtain them. I prefer the second option.

Though there is nothing wrong with camping buildings, we have C4/Dynamite (finally after long time some viable use for it) after all and camping in most cases doesn't lead to victory so it is not very profitable, so I don't know why you leave out buildings. If some guys are going to split up characters in multiple toilets, well something like that already happened on influence system and then you just take some motion sensor and sweep them out for free loot, it's fun + you kill like one or two of them and they suddenly lose the ability to gain anything. Just the most important thing is to not let players camp in the whole map, that way reducing space required to cover to find toilet rats or destroyers ...

Epic times

[LeMark]

This merc / slave madness is a problem who need to be solve before the tc zone. With fast relog 1 guys can bring 20+ merc on the battlefield in like 1 minutes. This is way more urgent than those TC zone.

[Kilgore]

That of course was mostly because of beacon not working and there was no indication of presence, and if there isn't with all the beacon, why not put group of alts with low tier gear and protect them by some sneakers, while real force is on world map?

My point is that the resources obtained should be based on how large of a player group, how well equipped the force "protecting, being in control" is, if not more resources then at least reduced time needed to obtain them. I prefer the second option.

Though there is nothing wrong with camping buildings, we have C4/Dynamite (finally after long time some viable use for it) after all and camping in most cases doesn't lead to victory so it is not very profitable, so I don't know why you leave out buildings.

1. What low tier gear? Gear check is to make sure that they are equipped.
2. More chars, bigger/faster reward -> makes sense but encourages multilog. If anything, resource increase/reward regen rate shouldn't be linear. Example: 5 chars to capture the town, +10 to double the reward, +20 to make it x4 etc.
3. Yep, camping buildings is wrong not because you can't fight them (it's easy with explosives), but because it takes time to search for them, even with motion sensors. It's just boring and has nothing to do with guarding anything.

This merc / slave madness is a problem who need to be solve before the tc zone. With fast relog 1 guys can bring 20+ merc on the battlefield in like 1 minutes. This is way more urgent than those TC zone.

This too. It happens in every session, btw.