Other > General Game Discussion
PvP loot to the not so deserving
T-888:
--- Quote from: avv on December 08, 2012, 12:24:29 pm ---I'm trying to make a point: if fastrelogs are disabled, the first team inside is always at disadvantage because they can be scouted but the team on worldmap can hide its numbers and builds. How will you fix that?
--- End quote ---
The attacking team doesn't always have the element of surprise, even if they mostly have, there is nothing wrong with that. You don't need to fix something witch is based purely on the strategy of either the defending or attacking team players. There are ways how to hide numbers inside city, also prevent scouting and surprise the opposing faction. The problem is you think linear, there is disadvantage or there is proper strategy, it's a disadvantage for those who haven't thought about it. Predict the unpredictable and make the best out of the worst situation, it's all about the right know-how.
avv:
--- Quote from: T-888 on December 08, 2012, 02:15:19 pm ---The attacking team doesn't always have the element of surprise, even if they mostly have, there is nothing wrong with that.
--- End quote ---
What are you talking about nothing wrong about it? Of course there is: it encourages players not to enter first. And what's more, team that has been inside for 20 mins already is less alert than assailants with sharp minds. They have only 10 mins of drugs left too.
The initiator needs to be compensated somehow.
--- Quote ---You don't need to fix something witch is based purely on the strategy of either the defending or attacking team players. There are ways how to hide numbers inside city, also prevent scouting and surprise the opposing faction. The problem is you think linear, there is disadvantage or there is proper strategy, it's a disadvantage for those who haven't thought about it. Predict the unpredictable and make the best out of the worst situation, it's all about the right know-how.
--- End quote ---
I know these plans, like keeping players on worldmap. But for example hiding actual players inside the map is only possible if they log off and wait themselves to disappear and that's just stupid, who wants to play like that? Otherwise enemy sneaks will just rummage through the entire map, looking for additional troops. If the enemy suspects a trap, it won't even show up. If the grids are too guarded, again nobody will show up. At some point teams need to show some acts of pure goodwill to encourage enemies to even appear. Good example is giving room to enter from second street in NR commercial.
It's not just what you can do, but how reasonable it is in terms of good gameplay. The reason players even go inside unsafe zones is that they want to have fun even at the risk of putting themselves in disadvantageous position in terms of strategy.
T-888:
--- Quote from: avv on December 08, 2012, 03:03:03 pm ---What are you talking about nothing wrong about it? Of course there is: it encourages players not to enter first. And what's more, team that has been inside for 20 mins already is less alert than assailants with sharp minds. They have only 10 mins of drugs left too.
The initiator needs to be compensated somehow.
--- End quote ---
Simply put, there is nothing wrong about. Let me elaborate.
The defending team witch is in town in theory had infinitive amount of time to prepare, go through various scenarios, possibilities of how defend, though the attacking team needs time to react and get there, also prepare a strategy depending on evaluation of the situation, enemy position, composition and variables like third team. That time period is a lot less for the initiators, counting in speech characters it's much less in practice most of time of what you are presenting me.
So, it's perfectly balanced and purely strategy based, that is why it isn't a problem, the initiators are compensated well enough, just be aware of it. That because the defenders are exposed doesn't mean it's an automatic disadvantage, there is a saying that the best defense is an offense. In practice the attacking team most of the time is attacked and exposed to something they didn't expect, didn't predict, weren't prepared enough, wasn't enough time and in many cases when there isn't enough time the potential attackers switch places, wait out the Town Control timer and start their own. If they couldn't be fast enough it's the drawback of being forced to defend. It's harder, but that is when skill comes into to play, if prepared well enough it is easier to defend than attack in many cases. Just like Broken Hills is very hard to attack and very easy to defend (depends on whether there is enough of know-how), map of course takes a factor in all of it, some maps are more suited for offense like Modoc.
--- Quote from: avv on December 08, 2012, 03:03:03 pm ---I know these plans, like keeping players on worldmap. But for example hiding actual players inside the map is only possible if they log off and wait themselves to disappear and that's just stupid, who wants to play like that?
--- End quote ---
I'm not here to teach you how to play, but it seems you aren't thinking wide enough. No offense, but there is much more than that possible.
--- Quote from: avv on December 08, 2012, 03:03:03 pm ---Otherwise enemy sneaks will just rummage through the entire map, looking for additional troops. If the enemy suspects a trap, it won't even show up. If the grids are too guarded, again nobody will show up. At some point teams need to show some acts of pure goodwill to encourage enemies to even appear. Good example is giving room to enter from second street in NR commercial.
--- End quote ---
Undeniably false logic, at first you were talking about defenders being with the most disadvantage, now your giving an example of a strategically inflexible map and saying the defenders should allow a tactical error to occur. Giving an window of opportunity just because of poorly designed environment is quite dumb. That is why you don't see Soldiers of Thunderstorm all too often in NR, we gather many players easily, can cover all grids with sneakers, have very much mercenaries and in the end nobody is going to attack and the whole event becoming pointless at first to even begin preparing for something like that.
If we suspect a trap, it's just a matter of evaluation if it's possible to overcome it, outplay it. It hardly ever isn't possible, if it isn't it usually is because of low numbers at some late hours or something.
--- Quote from: avv on December 08, 2012, 03:03:03 pm ---It's not just what you can do, but how reasonable it is in terms of good gameplay. The reason players even go inside unsafe zones is that they want to have fun even at the risk of putting themselves in disadvantageous position in terms of strategy.
--- End quote ---
I don't see how this is relevant to the point of why we started to even discuss something, but you said at first that the defenders are the ones who would be with the most disadvantage and that the initiators need to be compensated?
Huh? Okay, whatever you say.
avv:
--- Quote from: T-888 on December 08, 2012, 03:47:55 pm ---Simply put, there is nothing wrong about. Let me elaborate.
The defending team witch is in town in theory had infinitive amount of time to prepare
--- End quote ---
This applies only with fast relogs. Without them you can't prepare much without cheating. You got your character, a placement and gear for it and that's it. What else is a base in spawn square with gear and cars. That's how it was in last session.
--- Quote ---I'm not here to teach you how to play, but it seems you aren't thinking wide enough. No offense, but there is much more than that possible.
--- End quote ---
If you want to hide numbers, either you put them on worldmap, log them off or hide them in some pocket of map, where enemy sneaks will try to dig them out. Can't think of any other realistic way to do it.
--- Quote ---Undeniably false logic, at first you were talking about defenders being with the most disadvantage, now your giving an example of a strategically inflexible map and saying the defenders should allow a tactical error to occur.
--- End quote ---
The thing is: if the defenders secure grids, nobody will come - in a situation where fast relogs won't work especially.
--- Quote ---we gather many players easily, can cover all grids with sneakers,
--- End quote ---
That always puzzled me: how can a team afford like 3 bluesuits to run around or stand afk-style when their team is in the midst of decisive battle?
--- Quote ---I don't see how this is relevant to the point of why we started to even discuss something, but you said at first that the defenders are the ones who would be with the most disadvantage and that the initiators need to be compensated?
--- End quote ---
Defenders = initiators because they are first team in, something to encourage other team to enter too.
Only thing that I agree here is that gameplay-wise there is no reason at all to stand in new reno compared to tc, because there's no tc locker in reno. So in the end, nobody should ever complain about reno pvp because there was no reason to enter there in first place. Fun isn't something that can be measured.
T-888:
--- Quote from: avv on December 08, 2012, 04:16:54 pm ---This applies only with fast relogs. Without them you can't prepare much without cheating. You got your character, a placement and gear for it and that's it. What else is a base in spawn square with gear and cars. That's how it was in last session.
--- End quote ---
It's better to attack as soon as possible so other teams don't have so much time, this applies to any situation of FR or not.
--- Quote from: avv on December 08, 2012, 04:16:54 pm ---If you want to hide numbers, either you put them on worldmap, log them off or hide them in some pocket of map, where enemy sneaks will try to dig them out. Can't think of any other realistic way to do it.
--- End quote ---
Doesn't have to be some pocket of map and doesn't have to be logged off actually or on WM, not here to teach someone to play.(not that I think you don't know how to play, just because it's very simple answer, sooner or later you'll see :) )
--- Quote from: avv on December 08, 2012, 04:16:54 pm ---The thing is: if the defenders secure grids, nobody will come - in a situation where fast relogs won't work especially.
--- End quote ---
If the map is poorly designed of course, but most of the maps are made quite well to allow flexible situations.
--- Quote from: avv on December 08, 2012, 04:16:54 pm ---That always puzzled me: how can a team afford like 3 bluesuits to run around or stand afk-style when their team is in the midst of decisive battle?
--- End quote ---
Multitasking, as I said I didn't came here to give you tips, but there is good reason why a team affords something like that and can afford even without FR.
You of all players should understand it, as you tend to play on sneakers a lot.
--- Quote from: avv on December 08, 2012, 04:16:54 pm ---Defenders = initiators because they are first team in, something to encourage other team to enter too.
Only thing that I agree here is that gameplay-wise there is no reason at all to stand in new reno compared to tc, because there's no tc locker in reno. So in the end, nobody should ever complain about reno pvp because there was no reason to enter there in first place. Fun isn't something that can be measured.
--- End quote ---
Initiators = attackers, because they start the fight, they attack. Two ways how to look at it.:)
Good map design allows players to have opportunities, the encouragement is that it is possible and it is going to be fun. Reward is loot, good fight etc. etc.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version