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[kox]

This game has already turned into a retarded super stimpak bg slugfest, all I'm asking is for a little bit of variety. I'm not interested in unarmed trolls, I'm talking purely about melee characters who already need to be fully geared up to be effective. We can argue about this all year or we can get the devs to implement this weapon in the game to see who was right. The same devs implemented 220 AC which made the game broken, so why should they be afraid of implementing this weapon? If it's overpowered they are free to remove it, but don't deny us the chance to test it properly. After all, we're in open beta.

agree.Why dont try and see what happend?

[avv]

This game has already turned into a retarded super stimpak bg slugfest, all I'm asking is for a little bit of variety. I'm not interested in unarmed trolls, I'm talking purely about melee characters who already need to be fully geared up to be effective. We can argue about this all year or we can get the devs to implement this weapon in the game to see who was right. The same devs implemented 220 AC which made the game broken, so why should they be afraid of implementing this weapon? If it's overpowered they are free to remove it, but don't deny us the chance to test it properly. After all, we're in open beta.

Effective unarmed was and is being tested and it's called heavy handed + mega power fist. It's powerful if you get close, but that's it. Just like the plasma torch would be. Only way to avoid it is to run away and it's not really interesting gameplay in any way. If you add plasma torch in game, the effect is exactly the same. People don't play that kind of build for the reasons explained before: unarmed lacks the options ranged weapons have.

In this case here variety wouldn't increase the quality.

agree.Why dont try and see what happend?

Like what was done with high AC? If there are good reasons to not to do something, then the solution is not to still try and see but simply not do it.

[davrot]

There you go with unarmed again. Just because you don't like playing with hth builds doesn't mean the rest of the player base has the same opinion as you. Don't bring your personal crusade against hth here, thank you.

[Roachor]

The dmg is fine balancewise, not like hth can do anything to a group of players. Reason high dmg one hex hth is more deserving than high damage 1hex bg is that you HAVE to get within one hex to do damage, bg can kill you at long range. You can get a lot of shots off in the time it takes to run 35 hex. Even if it was a sneak hth with plasma torch, if he gets close enough to kill and you arent alone he's dead and he loses a top tier weapon. Right now there isn't a single hth weapon that could kill a burster faster than he could kill them even sd crit from scp. Oh and as far as electric damage is concerned its shittier than reg against CA, you get killed in mamk2 that's what you get for being cheap. Imo flamer damage should be closer to 150-200 as well.

[avv]

There you go with unarmed again. Just because you don't like playing with hth builds doesn't mean the rest of the player base has the same opinion as you. Don't bring your personal crusade against hth here, thank you.

Hth and melee are basically the same thing.
No idea what's the crusade you're talking about I'm just laying down some facts and you calling them personal opinions isn't very smart because that will just derail the whole subject.
Besides, there's nothing wrong to be against suggestions that have the potential to make the gameplay worse.

[davrot]

Hth and melee are basically the same thing.
No idea what's the crusade you're talking about I'm just laying down some facts and you calling them personal opinions isn't very smart because that will just derail the whole subject.
Besides, there's nothing wrong to be against suggestions that have the potential to make the gameplay worse.

You're the one laying down "facts" about an unimplemented weapon. Your predictions are not the subject of this thread.

[Tomowolf]

avv's right, but why not buff melee weapons like super sledge or ripper, or mega power fist to be able to kill guy in 1 - 2 hits? Those weapons are best of its tier and cost some more than others, another thing is adding the heavy handed effect to the melee weapons - then it'll have legs and arms, but still damage is too low with hi-teq melee weapons compared to other...

[avv]

You're the one laying down "facts" about an unimplemented weapon. Your predictions are not the subject of this thread.

How is plasma torch different from any unarmed/melee weapon when it comes to playstyle?
All melee weapons require you to be right next to the enemy and that's when all the downsides and drawbacks I've explained to you kick in. It doesn't matter if it's super sledge, plasma torch or powerfist - same rules apply.

[davrot]

How is plasma torch different from any unarmed/melee weapon when it comes to playstyle?

Sheer lethality that allows you to quickly kill your enemy, instead of repeatedly bashing him hoping he would get knocked out while his buddies tickle you with miniguns from behind.

[avv]

Sheer lethality that allows you to quickly kill your enemy, instead of repeatedly bashing him hoping he would get knocked out while his buddies tickle you with miniguns from behind.

So you just click on opponent and if you get close, he dies. Doesn't sound particularly fun for anyone because of course the opponent will start running away. Then you chase him forever or let go, just like how heavy handed works. This is the problem all hth fights have. 
Only way to get something done would be to lurk in corners but then your whole gameplay narrows down to corners, which basically makes the build quite limited. Balanced weapons are always useful.
If the weapon is so strong it can just kill things it gets close to, it would be overpowered when combined with sneak because low PE chars couldn't see it coming.
If the weapon was incredibly rare, then it would be all the same if it was added or not because situations to use it would be extremely rare and few would dare to risk it.

[Roachor]

Yeah HH is only good against 1 target at a time, anyone halfway serious about pvp travels in groups. You don't have time to knock down a guy 15 times when people are shooting at you and even with mega powerfist you're looking at like 40  damage a punch. That's roughly 10 seconds to kill 1 player when most bursters can kill you in 3. On top of this crits are heavily diminished despite HH pretty much requiring fast shot to be effective. I don't see why there is so much resistance to variety of combat styles, it's like you guys want to be bored.

BTW avv, low pe chars aren't pvp chars, if anything they'd be hth so sneak isn't really an issue. Even if a sneak killed one guy he'd get killed right after and even if so, sneak chars shouldn't be able to kill? Sneak builds are the most demanding builds and they don't perform like they should. Sneak hth isn't even a thing in this game, no one has this build because the weapons suck.

[davrot]

So you just click on opponent and if you get close, he dies. Doesn't sound particularly fun for anyone because of course the opponent will start running away. Then you chase him forever or let go, just like how heavy handed works. This is the problem all hth fights have. 
Only way to get something done would be to lurk in corners but then your whole gameplay narrows down to corners, which basically makes the build quite limited. Balanced weapons are always useful.
If the weapon is so strong it can just kill things it gets close to, it would be overpowered when combined with sneak because low PE chars couldn't see it coming.
If the weapon was incredibly rare, then it would be all the same if it was added or not because situations to use it would be extremely rare and few would dare to risk it.

Yes, lurking around corners. What did you expect? Playing hth characters as snipers?

[avv]

Yes, lurking around corners. What did you expect? Playing hth characters as snipers?

Then the gameplay is very limited indeed. In many situations you couldn't do anything at all because the target is too far away or knows where you are. In a team such build would be pointless because it couldn't move along with the rest of his guys and add to the effort like ranged builds do.
For example heavy handed with mega powerfist is still good enough if it just gets close. But haven't seen any characters lurking in corners with it recently. To make a character fun and balanced, it needs to be able to operate everywhere.

[DeputyDope]

So you just click on opponent and if you get close, he dies.

sorta like BG 1-hexing?

[Roachor]

You use sneak to get close, no build can survive running to the enemy even with max defense and hp. It's stupid to have an mmo that demands team combat when it has barely any players. If you think HH powerfist is good you must have had a lot of friends backing you up or you've never made the build.