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[TKs-KaBoom]

[7:14:42 PM] (Channel) Admiral Chang: fonline is dead
[7:15:00 PM] (Channel) intruders: good
[7:15:07 PM] (Channel) intruders: was about time
[7:15:12 PM] (Channel) intruders: i m so glad
[7:15:23 PM] To 2: its you idiots that killed it
[7:15:28 PM] To 2: you do know that right./
[7:15:39 PM] (Channel) Admiral Chang: how so?
[7:15:40 PM] (Channel) intruders: hello enemy spy
[7:16:10 PM] (Channel) Admiral Chang: pvp playerbase killed it ya
[7:16:14 PM] To 2: you cried and cired and cried till there were no builds except one, then you figured out it's 50/50 and cried some more
[7:16:23 PM] (Channel) intruders: Admiral Chang fucking ruined everything
[7:16:42 PM] (Channel) Admiral Chang: devs are stupid
[7:17:38 PM] To 2: your "elite tactics" of running in with max hp bg tanks with SS against other max hp bg tanks with SS led to a rock em sock em robot of wave after wave of like minding idiotry
[7:18:09 PM] (Channel) Admiral Chang: i didnt create the idea
[7:18:13 PM] (Channel) Admiral Chang: we hate it
[7:18:22 PM] To 2: no matter, thats what it degraded into
[7:27:18 PM] (Channel) Admiral Chang: intruders ruined this game


Fast relog cannon fodder tactic should be relabeled winning due to "attrition".  Too bad all the concessions given to appeasing the PvPers had irrevocable and damaging side effects to the PvE side of the game.

[brad smalls]

What PvE side of the game?

[Trokanis]

Sadly this is a fact that has been pointed out for YEARS, and the is always cried hard by the pvp'rs cause they want their fodder.  There is only a small percent of pvp players that actually try to fight a fair battle in things like TC and world map encounters, but even they get rolled by the fast-log, ac hp ape builds who just want to lulz people and be on top without a challenge.  Really the worst part is every attempt to bring the game back into some form of balance is met with extreme whine factor from the pvp apes, and since the majority of the player base left to bitch is the pvp power builds the devs hardly ever get any other type of feed back. 

Oh and don't bother trying to suggest any type of changes to the pvp system, people are soo frightened by it that even when a small group gets together and actually talks out a decent plan, the powerbuild/troll people turn the thread into a flame war.  Usually with nothing even remotely constructive for or against the suggested changes, just their sad tired 'The Wasteland is Harsh' drum that they've beaten into pieces.  I've prayed for things to get better in this game, and I have stayed through a lot, but I tell ya I'm certainly looking to reach for my hat.

[avv]

You can't blame the players for doing what the game encourages to do.

[Rage master]

FR is problem for me now...i run new faction and fighting with 4-5waves ist just v hard. but even if they will give 3min cd tnb will use just proxy like they did all the time.

[Trokanis]

Actually the game doesn't encourage people to make uber-builds.  The uber-build pker noobs do.  Cause they're soo scared of having a challenge or having to try that they have to make the best ape so they can be ok.  This game is all about freedom of choice, and given the choice a fair amount of people are gonna hide behind uber builds. 

[Roachor]

Clearly the people with the best builds are noobs, you should nerf their intelligence for being smarter than you. They are exploiting your stupidity and have an unfair advantage over your fast shot bb gun build.

[avv]

Actually the game doesn't encourage people to make uber-builds.  The uber-build pker noobs do.  Cause they're soo scared of having a challenge or having to try that they have to make the best ape so they can be ok.

If you give free choice to compete against other players, of course there will be players doing it. And those who they compete against need the be on the same level in terms of builds or they take a beating. Thus the game encourages minmaxing. If it's not the builds, then it's the gear. If it's neither, then it's numbers.
Players don't minmax to be able to smash nuubs but to stay on the same level with their opponents. Being able to smash nuubs is the byproduct of this minmaxing arms race.

[Y0ssarian]

But isn't it more manly to give yourself restrictions when you compete with someone on your same skill level? Makes it fun imo. Like drinking heavily Friday night while piloting on Dragon Valley in BF2....

I'll leave this min-maxing biz to single player RPGs and tryhards.
Skyrim comes to mind when I see my friends boast about having 'epic gearz'.

[Fat Man]

As they say there is 2 games going a PvP game and a PvE game. I can see how PvP players make it frustrating for somebody who wants to go into a TC town and gets shot by 20 rocketeers trying to do a quest. Also nerfs have affected some of the TB PvE players. Many of the TB builds that use spray n pray like small guns and energy weapon fast shot builds are doing less criticals because of recent nerfs to pvp crit bursters. Also many of the fun activities for PvE players farming unity is not even fun any more becuase of the change to the encounter rate which I suggest putting back to normal.

[avv]

But isn't it more manly to give yourself restrictions when you compete with someone on your same skill level? Makes it fun imo.

If you're alone you can do what ever the hell you please but don't expect others to do the same. Personally I prefer to do things properly.
When it comes to team play it's absolutely necessary to have top shelf gear and builds because teammates rely on each other and weakness in either can cost lives. No competitive gang tolerates unsuitable characters or equipment among them.

[Y0ssarian]

I guess people have thier own ideas of fun. Your post does make helluva alot of sense, I just can't ever find myself conforming to 'top shelf gear and builds' mentality to have fun in a game. Or log into another char because I lost a fight, or camp spawn entry locations with mercs or...

I guess people do whatever the hell they please to stay competitive.

Now if we're considering 10 people go fight another 10 people, and your build 'sucks' or has 'weakness', losing because of your build/gear could potentially ruin the fun of 9 other people... but it's a damn good feeling to crit someone out of existance with just a throwing knife and leather jacket.

[Enzotainment]

Many of the TB builds that use spray n pray like small guns and energy weapon fast shot builds are doing less criticals because of recent nerfs to pvp crit bursters.

Is this true, or just Fat Man talking? What are the nerfs he's mentioning?

[S.T.A.L.K.E.R]

Is this true, or just Fat Man talking? What are the nerfs he's mentioning?

look at the changelogs

[Enzotainment]

look at the changelogs

fine, don't tell me...