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Changelog 19/07/2012
Jytz:
--- Quote from: Lexx on July 22, 2012, 01:57:55 pm ---Crafting timer was in the game since ever. We even tried various forms of timers already, see what T-888 wrote a few posts above. If you have a timer to craft items or a timer to find items in encounters- technically it doesn't make a difference, both are timers, you just experience them in a different way.
--- End quote ---
Well its one extreme to another this type of change brings about frustrations. Its just we had an unlimited crafting timer and then it gets changed to 2 metal armors an hour, that is a huge change. I have no issues with the timers really, but its just strange to bring about such an extreme change.
Another thing is if you don't want us to use thieves to get our gear and super stims may I suggest a change to the super stim recipe and bring back the way shops worked from last wipe? This is another very frustrating thing that we can't trade when gun runners doesn't take 3/4 of things that are farmable.
T-888:
--- Quote from: Jytz on July 22, 2012, 02:08:47 pm ---Well its one extreme to another this type of change brings about frustrations. Its just we had an unlimited crafting timer and then it gets changed to 2 metal armors an hour, that is a huge change. I have no issues with the timers really, but its just strange to bring about such an extreme change.
--- End quote ---
That will balance out after some time, not so long as you might think.
--- Quote from: Jytz on July 22, 2012, 02:08:47 pm ---Another thing is if you don't want us to use thieves to get our gear and super stims may I suggest a change to the super stim recipe and bring back the way shops worked from last wipe? This is another very frustrating thing that we can't trade when gun runners doesn't take 3/4 of things that are farmable.
--- End quote ---
Make a suggestion, and those who have shitloads of SS and 5mm AP ammo, that will balance out with time too, and let's say SS and 5mm AP ammo are going to be valuable items, harder to obtain. Must play and see how it turns out.
--- Quote from: Lexx on July 22, 2012, 01:57:55 pm ---technically it doesn't make a difference, both are timers, you just experience them in a different way.
--- End quote ---
To point out the obvious, i think current timer and system is better than to just grind encounters like it's done for lockers, wouldn't want to do the same for resources.
avv:
--- Quote from: T-888 on July 22, 2012, 01:37:10 pm ---What does that mean? Gauss pistol rarity is regulated by it's scarcity, it's a rare item and powerful one, exotic item that involves higher risk/reward when fighting with it.
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It means that the maximum output of stuff is limited by how fast an individual player manages to hoard them. The better logistics, the more stuff. Time available will always measure the winner if everyone crafts at same speed, but if players aren't limited by cooldown someone who is effective and smart has the chance to hoard faster than someone who has more raw free time.
--- Quote ---Invalid argument, there's always is going to be some kind of CD, time needed to gain items, if you could get all equipment for a month in 1 day, that wouldn't be better, even worse. The more equipment you have the less worth it has, if everyone was running around in BA's and avengers only, and those items were too easy to get, no risk/no reward. No point to sell them, trade them, no value in them.
--- End quote ---
So far we haven't reached this point ever in the history of the game. Except maybe during prewipe madness.
--- Quote ---you don't understand, it's the same CD only in a different way, you just waste x time to get y items, no matter what you implement. Average time to find x encounters can be calculated, same thing for lockers in encounters, it's just your fooling yourself.
--- End quote ---
But if it's the same cd, what difference does it make? Crafting cooldown is not fun, this hidden gathering CD is more fun so isn't the logical solution in terms of enjoyable gameplay to choose the hidden one?
--- Quote ---By this logic, it would be much better if there was infinitive amount of resources in mines, with no cooldown for crafting, nothing whatsover, only time needed to haul ore in a dog mule and go to work bench, the shortest "cooldown" possible.
--- End quote ---
Unsafe mines have a risk of meeting other players.
--- Quote ---What this has to do with item availability?
--- End quote ---
It has to do with fun. Item availability can't be balanced because it's always player-dependent. Some have more free time, some don't. Unless you want to regulate the ammount of time every player can play daily, item availability is a joke.
Besides, if something is simply unbearably boring to craft then only the most hardened players will do it and rest will moan because they don't have those items and get pwned. Last session I didn't craft a single BA until the cooldowns got more reasonable. The grind wasn't simply worth it, some still did it but did they have fun doing it?
Trokanis:
Crafting timer is one thing. Combine said timer with in some cases lack of mats, an the rest of cases the need to trek halfway across the damn world to craft things of any real value and it adds up to absurdity. I don't want to be locked up in a damn cave, I don't mind a crafting timer, so long as I can get more than 5 f'n electronic parts per trip to make even the most basic of energy items. (that is just an example not the only reason).
If this truly is just an attempt to increase player interaction it really won't work, because the players make that interaction damn near impossible. Even if people come running back (which probably won't happen) all it will do is increase the amount of grief people will have to deal with to craft. There was a damn Thief noob parked in Gunrunners earlier, sure makes me want to go there and have to open a bunch of screens to craft the stuff I busted my ass to get, yup.... In this game player interaction boils down to, Kill or be killed, Troll or be Trolled, Grief or be Griefed, and the VERY rare, lets actually have a conversation in a public place, which almost always leads to another player coming up and doing any of the previous list.
The only thing wrong with easy access to 10mm SMGs in the previous seasons was what the players caused. Removing them from lower leveled areas didn't stop any of the things associated with them, (shop bursters, bluesuit grid campers, ext.) it was just another punishment to decent players based on the actions of noobs. (and not the only reason why the current crafting system is flawed)
P.S. Rework repairing please.
codave:
--- Quote from: Lexx on July 22, 2012, 01:57:55 pm ---Crafting timer was in the game since ever. We even tried various forms of timers already, see what T-888 wrote a few posts above. If you have a timer to craft items or a timer to find items in encounters- technically it doesn't make a difference, both are timers, you just experience them in a different way.
--- End quote ---
Are blueprints timers? I think so, based on the above post. If we want to craft Combat Armor, we have to either gather the caps to buy it, or take the time to grind the blueprints. So far my timer on crafting combat armor is 6 months (and counting). Same with P90's, Buffout (HQ Chem Comps?), etc.
Assuming I had a CA blueprint, I also have to contend with Advanced Workbenches. I would consider this a timer as well. Or at least a limitation.
Then on top of that, there is the global resource depletion. Not to mention HQ Chem Comps again, or Uranium Ore. How long is the timer on those items? When will they stop being depleted?
And now a crafting timer.
It's not the fact that a timer exists that is the problem. It's how many. Using the definition Lexx used, I can probably count more than those 4.
It isn't always the change that is the problem. It's that sometimes the changes don't play nice with one another.
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