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[maciek83]

yes, i understand you, you are right
still...

i will stand by my opinion that if we dont make those few first hours of play easier we will be stuck with low populated server made mostly by the same people every wipe. and i will repeat that noob friendly zones are most retarded idea.

making npc give some crap instead of nice players would make it even for all starters and not only those few that had help will stay ( i personally had NO help at all and did fine never ever raged ,but not many people are like that)

free crap is simple solution and would perfectly eliminate the thing that makes 90% of people just leave and that is :
a starting character have absolutely NO 'firepower' to start gaining exp and basic stuff - with my simple solution it would have it.

the thing that most people are finding 'too much' for em is having to somehow get your first gun ( and for some of em it can take up to an hour) then proceed few steps(or not) , loose all and start again naked - this is what we need to get rid of to have more people on server

and my solution will have absolutely no impact on any other aspect of game than those few first hours - all we will loose is a hardocore climete of first few hours that for most is just boring and not worth it

[BenKain]

In fact I'd argue that difficulty isn't an obstacle, but information or rather lack thereof.

I wholeheartedly agree. Common game mechanics, things that should be basic knowledge, are often omitted from guides and posts simply because people would prefer to keep their advantage a secret. While normally this would be fine, a wiki or player could dispense the appropriated info, but obliviously the majority of sources are either outdated or misleading.
Honestly until I met Malice and Nightlock, I was still poking around in the dark after nearly two weeks of play.

Really the game itself isn't that "hard", it is just rather unforgiving, which is exactly how I like my Wasteland. Creating a faction from scratch was the hardest thing I've done in this game.

Also I think it is important to point out again, that you are not the Chosen One. Many other MMOs adopt that kind of attitude toward PCs, breathing room to learn the game, offering that you may one day be the king of that world or some-such. 2238 openly puts you in the role of just another Wastelander, which is much more satisfying to me, because you have become powerful or rich by your own machinations, not by some divine presence or legendary bloodlines.   

I'd really like to see some sort of tutorial area, where you are progressively taught the basics of the game. I may map and script one out, just for the shits and giggles, but unfortunately the Devs don't seem interested in any outside input, except it would seem in 3D development.

Also, I think the first thing new players should be told, is to join a faction. The game is infinitely easier and more fun when you have people ready to listen to you bitch and catch you when you get PKed. Also factions tend to dispense more useful and reliable advice than the trolls that usually are the first to respond to newbies posts.   

Free junk would ruin the wasteland feel of the game imo. Guns and Armors are not something found or used lightly, and such valuable items would not be simply given away by anyone in their right mind. Again, if you need a good loadout, join a friendly faction.

[RavenousRat]

I'd really like to see some sort of tutorial area, where you are progressively taught the basics of the game. I may map and script one out, just for the shits and giggles, but unfortunately the Devs don't seem interested in any outside input, except it would seem in 3D development.

They're doing it sometimes:
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,14746.0.html

Also may be they will accept your work, you can always try ;p
Anyway your work could be used somewhere, as Wichura's map for metro was used in quest, etc.

Edit: or it was someone else's map? Can't remember, whatever.

[runboy93]

Now that I think little more... I think it's better that there will be no new guys.
I can't explain any better...

[maciek83]

o people , you dont recieve my massage i guess
you tell some complicated stories while i only want to get rid of JUST FIRST FEW HOURS OF PLAY HARDCORE THAT IS TO MUCH FOR 90% OF NOOBS
i just want to see more people on server with the simplest method

free junk would not ruin you feelings after you are past first 2 or 3 hours of play
come on i said we have to do somethink that seems stupid to achieve more important goal

you are all right with what you write but those 'elaborates' are not at all needed

we know how it would be better but what you say will never happan its just wishfull thinking while i am talking about real simple and effective way to get here more people

its a sacrifice(not much for christ...) for good cause

[maciek83]

Now that I think little more... I think it's better that there will be no new guys.
I can't explain any better...

nah ... its always funnier with more noobs around, now there are mostly powergamers  while we should be the elite of a server

[BenKain]

Ah, I thought they had closed these contests. I shall have to repost my quests there and the status of them.
Also, I was a little disheartened about the lack of enthusiasm from players, about anything that doesn't involve TC. It seems that when the Devs implement a cool non-combat feature, it is ignored or unused, but as soon as some combat ability gets nerfed or TC changes, there is a rage flood. I often feel sorry for the devs having to deal with the most childest player-base since the Barrens Chat. 

And it is a larger sacrifice than I think you realize maciek. Part of what makes this game is that first slough through the mud. Accomplishment does not come without hard work. If you are going to ragequit because you can't find a gun, you not going to last long here anyway. The wasteland is harsh, as much as I hate the fucking meme, and it should stay that way.

[maciek83]

then i guess we just see it whole different,
if you cant find first gun you just cant do the HARDEST thing in that game while you could easily go after that
and i thought about this idea for quite some time and i for one find it acceptable when adventages of it will be taken into consideration

[Malice Song]

the thing that most people are finding 'too much' for em is having to somehow get your first gun ( and for some of em it can take up to an hour) then proceed few steps(or not) , loose all and start again naked - this is what we need to get rid of to have more people on server

I'd really like to see some sort of tutorial area, where you are progressively taught the basics of the game.

I may be wrong, but the problem I see with giving out shit for free is new players raging on level 5 instead of level 1. I think the important part about getting your first gun is, in fact, getting it, not having it. I'm guilty of this myself, but at least to me it feels like new players I gave a cheap gun and then took Brahmin hunting, where they could ask questions about the game and all that stuff, got way more out of the deal than those I just gave 10 hides for a tent.

Fortunately there's actually a great solution for both schools of thought:

Lorraine

You get a starter gun and some ammo after a very simple quest that doesn't just give the reward out for free, but actually teaches you how to do it, while simultaneously showing you the importance of crafting, item deterioration caused by repairing, how to farm a single spot on the worldmap, the importance of running away from battles and the Fixboy. Perfect. Absolutely perfect.

Unfortunately right now it's broken beyond recognition and why she's buried in Adytum, when afaik no starter quest is pointing towards her (unless you're lucky enough to spawn at Hub and then curious enough to get the widow quest), is beyond me.

So yeah, if she gets fixed, the ridiculous material requirements on the 10mm removed, her speech timer disabled and new players actually pointed towards her (or her potential clones around the worldmap), you kind of have something similar to "free crap for noobs" and a little mini tutorial, everyone's hopefully happy and I wouldn't be surprised, if we saw a positive effect on server population, even if it's just a small one.

[Gilgamé]

As it stands now, the game is unforgiving. To those of a mindset from this generation, it's hard. To those that enjoyed the absolute shitfest that was Ultima Online and similiar games, this game is pretty standard.

[maciek83]

I may be wrong, but the problem I see with giving out shit for free is new players raging on level 5 instead of level 1. I think the important part about getting your first gun is, in fact, getting it, not having it. I'm guilty of this myself, but at least to me it feels like new players I gave a cheap gun and then took Brahmin hunting, where they could ask questions about the game and all that stuff, got way more out of the deal than those I just gave 10 hides for a tent.

Fortunately there's actually a great solution for both schools of thought:

Lorraine

You get a starter gun and some ammo after a very simple quest that doesn't just give the reward out for free, but actually teaches you how to do it, while simultaneously showing you the importance of crafting, item deterioration caused by repairing, how to farm a single spot on the worldmap, the importance of running away from battles and the Fixboy. Perfect. Absolutely perfect.

Unfortunately right now it's broken beyond recognition and why she's buried in Adytum, when afaik no starter quest is pointing towards her (unless you're lucky enough to spawn at Hub and then curious enough to get the widow quest), is beyond me.

So yeah, if she gets fixed, the ridiculous material requirements on the 10mm removed, her speech timer disabled and new players actually pointed towards her (or her potential clones around the worldmap), you kind of have something similar to "free crap for noobs" and a little mini tutorial, everyone's hopefully happy and I wouldn't be surprised, if we saw a positive effect on server population, even if it's just a small one.

well i assumed (hoped) people are not complete retards and they would know ,that this starting crap is just to give them sheer posibility of fighting for better stuff and in the mean time learn how game works, so till they get first levels they will have enough of basic gear to comfortably play for themself from then on.


the thing with quest girl that gives you first gun is that they will loose this one gun the second the quest is over - when they encounter just about anyone ,player or even rats... free crap is so they dont loose ability to do a shit averytime they die... and crafting when you dont have anything is not an answer here as was proven by many rage quitters

[Malice Song]

well i assumed (hoped) people are not complete retards and they would know ,that this starting crap is just to give them sheer posibility of fighting for better stuff and in the mean time learn how game works, so till they get first levels they will have enough of basic gear to comfortably play for themself from then on.


the thing with quest girl that gives you first gun is that they will loose this one gun the second the quest is over - when they encounter just about anyone ,player or even rats... free crap is so they dont loose ability to do a shit averytime they die... and crafting when you dont have anything is not an answer here as was proven by many rage quitters

im wondering, the most wieved topic 'how to get started' has 120000 wievs...
does that rly mean we had 120k people that wanted to try this game but then abandoned it forever?

i dont think installing the game is a problem here, if someone cant do it properly or search forum for help ,such game is already not for him so he will rage quit anyway.

and i will repeat that noob friendly zones are most retarded idea.

while we should be the elite of a server

Downing Effect

Happens to me all the time, too, fwiw. Just figured you may find that article interesting. Personally it really made me reflect quite a bit.

For the time being, though, this isn't going to lead anywhere.

[Knife_cz]

I just hate one thing.
Plasma nade killers in protected cities
For example this player "Zen" you do know the quest with super-mutants from Gun Runners right?Well I got the item quest and I happily walk to Gun Runners, thinking I won't be killed there as it is protected town , but guess what this "Zen" guy camps with plasma grenades right inside the building - right behind the door.
I think you got it how I ended.I lost an quest item and all my loot from it.

[maciek83]

Downing Effect

Happens to me all the time, too, fwiw. Just figured you may find that article interesting. Personally it really made me reflect quite a bit.

For the time being, though, this isn't going to lead anywhere.

  lol does that mean i m stupider than i think becouse i assume 'we' have more IQ than all those rage quitters?.... or i am intelligent becouse i assumed a regular person have decent inteligence so he can know what to do with the free crap
im confused 

after all i only noticed a fact: most people cant handle a game like we do so lets help them...

@Knife_cz quite off topic , there is a topic about what you said somewhere

ok i get it ,i have low iq and low self esteem ... i guess i should rage quit my life now

[runboy93]

I got time to time habit to help low hp players (aka new players), but they all so paranoids because they think I will kill them (Which I don't want to do with my "helper" alts)

Like getting 10 brahmine hides for tent/camp or some weapons from encounters or just simply insane mutated moles killing.

I can understand, if you got killed many times by different players but you need also remember that there is good guys too.