Other > Suggestions

Fast relog.

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avv:

--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on March 07, 2012, 01:33:30 PM ---- people don't die in battle all at once
- having a good logistical base allows you to rearm the char that died in about 60-120 seconds after respawn
- looting and regrouping after a victory takes at least 5 minutes
- entering as a whole beats constantly streamed reinforcements every time unless the other team is camping a building

Because if you do agree, this whole sleepiness/fast relog argument is just pointless as it makes very little difference in terms of time of arrival of another wave whether you have fast relog and alts waiting over the map or not - you just rearm and wait for the others to die and do the same, 2 minutes is not enough and 10 minutes or something that'd make this delay meaningful would just make the game more of a pain in the ass outside of PvP and basically make having proxy alts over the map a popular thing for people who prefer spamming their little lv24 zerglings instead of fighting in the name of Odin with a single character  like real men do.
--- End quote ---

I don't get it what you don't get. I've seen what fastrelogs do and they ruin stuff up. You are talking about concentrated spawning after everyone is dead, but with fast relogs people just spawn right after they die and join the action while it's still going on. Maybe if everyone waited that their pallies died fast relog would't be so bad but they don't do that. Once someone dies, he relogs to an alt and is back in the ongoing action in less than 20 seconds. That matters.


--- Quote ---I don't really agree. In small conflicts individual skill is what matters (go see Hinkley), with 5v5 or less one person can do an all-kill pretty easily if the other team doesn't know what it's doing.
--- End quote ---

And when skill-level is close to equal? The one who has more waves wins. If the other side fastrelogs it doesn't mean they are worse players by means of skills. What if some people just had like 3 more lives in hinkley versus your single life and they were equally skilled?
In addition if more skilled players do fast relog against less skilled ones, they will cer-fucking-tainly win, taking away even the small chance of victory from the beginners.


--- Quote ---In bigger fights making a synchronized entry (and really, would anyone dare to disagree with that?) is more important than keeping some presence of the map most of the times, so basically what Kilgore said is true for most situations
--- End quote ---

And with fastrelog making this entry is even easier because the team doing it has their chars on worldmap already. They just put a new ready channel in teamspeak for those who got chars ready for next wave.


--- Quote ---Is the remaining 10% of odd setups that result in fast relogs having an edge over "normal" play worth all this fuss? Is it worth introducing the mechanic that weights heavily on everything outside PvP?
--- End quote ---

Weights down heavily outside pvp? Not being able to fight in 2-3 minutes after login is going to weight down exactly what?


--- Quote ---Mass relogging is just a really expensive tactic that hurts you more than it helps if you do it every single time, there really is no rational reason for it receiving this much attention and whine, but then again this community has been overreacting over minor things like that for 3 years, so it's just another day in the 2238 forums I guess.
--- End quote ---

It's not expensive because it wins fights. You spawn more zergs and weight the enemy down until you got them. Then just claim back the loot.

Nice_Boat:

--- Quote from: Sarakin on March 07, 2012, 01:53:39 PM ---Are you even playing Nice Boat ? Youre describing 60-120 seconds, FR alt can jump in 5 seconds. Looting doesnt take 5 minutes when everyone can FR to his looter and loot all in under one minute. If everything whats Kilgore is saying is true, why arent BBS dominating ?

--- End quote ---
So yeah, disregard the gist of the interlocutor's argument ("no meaningful difference between 60-120 and 5 seconds because by the time the last person dies everyone else is already waiting geared up", in case you didn't get it the first time), make an illogical and obviously untrue statement (looter alts don't require FR and were always used, besides large battles that make reinforcements important were never wrapped up this fast with disabled sneaklooting) and add the good ol' ad hominem which isn't even true because BBS is doing really well at the moment. What a quality post Sarakin.


--- Quote from: avv on March 07, 2012, 01:56:27 PM ---I don't get it what you don't get. I've seen what fastrelogs do and they ruin stuff up. You are talking about concentrated spawning after everyone is dead, but with fast relogs people just spawn right after they die and join the action while it's still going on. Maybe if everyone waited that their pallies died fast relog would't be so bad but they don't do that. Once someone dies, he relogs to an alt and is back in the ongoing action in less than 20 seconds. That matters.

--- End quote ---
In case you didn't notice, I'm disputing the point of joining the action while it's still going on unless it's a siege situation.


--- Quote from: avv on March 07, 2012, 01:56:27 PM ---And when skill-level is close to equal? The one who has more waves wins. If the other side fastrelogs it doesn't mean they are worse players by means of skills. What if some people just had like 3 more lives in hinkley versus your single life and they were equally skilled?
In addition if more skilled players do fast relog against less skilled ones, they will cer-fucking-tainly win, taking away even the small chance of victory from the beginners.

--- End quote ---
And how the hell are you supposed to put this skill to use when you end up with a giant clusterfuck if you don't take your sweet time to regroup?


--- Quote from: avv on March 07, 2012, 01:56:27 PM ---And with fastrelog making this entry is even easier because the team doing it has their chars on worldmap already. They just put a new ready channel in teamspeak for those who got chars ready for next wave.

--- End quote ---
Yeah, it is easier but it's also considerably more expensive and really, is the difference that big in practical terms? On another note, you just contradicted yourself because you either ready the next wave or you keep running in, you can't do both as ultimately players is your most important resource.


--- Quote from: avv on March 07, 2012, 01:56:27 PM ---Weights down heavily outside pvp? Not being able to fight in 2-3 minutes after login is going to weight down exactly what?

--- End quote ---
2-3 minutes is going to be a bit irritating if you want to do an in-town spawn (which is already risky and not very popular), besides it's going to slow your farming down (which in macro scale is a giant pain in the ass because farming is already nasty and a must). 10 minutes necessary to make this cooldown really count would be even worse, so yeah.


--- Quote from: avv on March 07, 2012, 01:56:27 PM ---It's not expensive because it wins fights. You spawn more zergs and weight the enemy down until you got them. Then just claim back the loot.

--- End quote ---
Drugs and armors get depleted, guns are easy to get. Fighting with a single char and actually protecting your ass instead of doing human wave assaults is still the most cost-effective way to go at it and I'm not even sure we'd be having this discussion if the towns weren't bugged with next to infinite supply of drugs at the beginning anyway.

varandas:
Do you realy tink what youa re sayng or you are just posting for more spech nice_boat?
Have you been around lately?
I can show you videos where we defeat 2/3 waves od 15 players and we lost 2/3 per wave and stil got crushed in last wave and all this in less than 5 min so dont come and tell me that fr is not inportant and even whit relog timer this is possibel.
Please be racional this is destroing pvp.
Question to everyone that have seen more than 1 wipe. Have you ever seen one after wipe whit so low player base so quick than this one? I wonder what will be the number of players online in lets say 6/7 months if tings keap going dwon this road.
Just tink about it...............

Shangalar:
Such a project with no leading direction cannot survive indefinately. This "beta" stayed for years. I guess it's just time to go somewhere else. At least that's what I'm gonna do.

avv:

--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on March 07, 2012, 02:01:54 PM ---And how the hell are you supposed to put this skill to use when you end up with a giant clusterfuck if you don't take your sweet time to regroup?
--- End quote ---

You find your pals who fight the enemy and fight the fight the usual "skilled" way. Or if leader sees his men are falling, he can fall back a bit, call the fastreloggers to spawn somewhere and regroup with the survivors for another push.


--- Quote ---2-3 minutes is going to be a bit irritating if you want to do an in-town spawn (which is already risky and not very popular), besides it's going to slow your farming down (which in macro scale is a giant pain in the ass because farming is already nasty and a must). 10 minutes necessary to make this cooldown really count would be even worse, so yeah.
--- End quote ---

Slows down my farming? I gear up my farmer and move it in position during the first 2-3 mins. I farm in cycles of several hours so few minutes in the beginning is nothing.


--- Quote ---Drugs and armors get depleted, guns are easy to get. Fighting with a single char and actually protecting your ass instead of doing human wave assaults is still the most cost-effective way to go at it and I'm not even sure we'd be having this discussion if the towns weren't bugged with next to infinite supply of drugs at the beginning anyway.
--- End quote ---

You might consume drugs and armor multiple times faster with fastrelog but what do we do when we don't pvp? We farm. I'd say we farm 90% of our gaming time anyway, at least now. So everyone who can farm can afford fast relog waves. And if you're out of gear, don't pvp but go farming then come back when you can afford fast relog waves. Who suffers? those who don't have time to farm as much others can. They suffer at least double compared to before.
And lastly, fast reloggers don't have to do human wave attacks. They might do it because it works now, but if someone magically manages to counter that strategy it doesn't mean that fast reloggers lose. They are still as good players as they are without it but with it they have instant respawning and regearing at their disposal. It should be pretty obvious advantage over normal respawning and normal regearing. We always need to come back faster when we die.

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