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Author Topic: how should shops work  (Read 3416 times)

avv

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how should shops work
« on: January 31, 2012, 02:25:49 pm »

Shops full of pointless stuff?
The guy before you unloaded his inventory full of fnfals and took all the goodies?
Feel like bursting other traders?

If you agree on these this thread is for you. If you don't have a clue what's wrong with shops, read the spoilers.


Shops should encourage players to sell them good stuff they don't need so that other players who need them can come and buy them off. Allow me to propose how this can be done. It's a wall of text, but if it scares you just gtfo.

Each shop has a limit of how much certain type of items they want to buy.
Sg merchant has limit for all sg guns and ammo in the game like this:
10mm pistol: max 5
Desert eagle: max 5
Gauss: max 5

When someone buys off one of those guns, he creates demand in the shop. What will happen is that the merchant will want to fill his supply of guns. So if you buy 10mm pistol, the merchant will want to buy it back. Once someone sells the gun to the merchant, he soon will restock an additional gun and also increases the maximum supply by one.
So if you bought 10mm pistol, the merchant has 4/5 of them. When someone sells that gun to him, after like 30 mins he restocks and now has the one that was sold +1, resulting in 6/6 10mm pistols. This way more wanted items have bigger supply.
Now you probably don't expect people buying 10mm pistols, but think of the same thing with gauss, p90 or drugs.

If some weapon isn't bought, its supply will drop slowly over time there's only 1/1 stock of it.

Prices need to be global and same for everyone and everybody. Shops have infinite caps.
Prices could vary in this way: the longer a shop is out of products, the more the salesman will pay for the missing product. However, the time it takes to prices to rise could go hand in hand with the reducing supply. So when price increases by x the supply decreases by 1. So when the product is in state of 0/1, it has biggest demand and price. But it should take time, like 10 hours before the first price increase takes place.

Benefits:
- Players handle the restocking
- Players with caps will buy the items they want
- Players who need caps and have items other people want will sell those items

Downside:
- Certain shops will become hubs of trading while unsafe town shops will be abandoned due to their unsafe nature
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 03:16:08 pm by avv »
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teamabyss

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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2012, 02:45:46 pm »

I do like the idea,
I mean seriously.
The gun store in the hub, doesnt buy guns,
and the general store guy in the hub,
doesnt buy general items.
;/
So... i resort to fruit, and other randomcrap i find out in the waste.
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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2012, 03:10:40 pm »

+1 billion points
This would make the game so much ....idk? BETTER? then  it is now? i really like the idea of stock and demand on the shop keepers part, because as it stands now the shops make no sense, you cant do anything alone (with one toon) and you need a ton of alts for TRADING and crafting alone, why? why is it such a bane for the developers to allow people to get rich in this game?
this feature would limit the "getting rich quickly" part for people, and will leave only room for those who are smart, fast, strong and furious to prosper in the wasteland, just as it should be
and not some 50 people who gather together from one country and then work to have an endless supply of BA's in their base, thats rediclious
also, this puts in the idea of keeping track of the MARKET,  and actually CREATES one such market, also might i add that all the shops in a single town be connected and inflounce each other? would be awesome :D
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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2012, 04:05:30 pm »

you are absolutely right !
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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2012, 06:46:07 pm »

Yeah, I've only been playing for an hour or so but I've noticed the shops are still swamped with stuff that's crafted by players and 'valuable' but nothing anybody actually wants. Healing powder, BBs, etc. Definitely worth rewarding players for producing goods that other players need/will use. And I support stores having infinite caps as a simple tweak in favour of playability.

But that needs to be reflected in crafting too - if it's easier for people to make useless gear and trade it for stuff they want, then the practical gear is too far out of reach.
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Vandal

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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 07:11:20 pm »

I agree!
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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2012, 07:13:47 pm »

Has anyone seen the HIGH TECH stuff in SF shops!
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Reconite

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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2012, 10:01:56 pm »

Very nice idea, but the bartering interface also needs a lot of work (if possible without Cvet changing things himself), having to scroll through tons of shit while on a damn TIMER is just not ok.
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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2012, 06:20:09 am »

Mostly agree 99%. Close enough.

Downside:
- Certain shops will become hubs of trading while unsafe town shops will be abandoned due to their unsafe nature

Better items could be found in unsafe towns. Some towns could refuse to sell a certain item. A town could buy an item but not restock it, limiting availability in that town. This would force people to travel to get a different variety of items.
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avv

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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2012, 11:13:58 am »

Very nice idea, but the bartering interface also needs a lot of work (if possible without Cvet changing things himself), having to scroll through tons of shit while on a damn TIMER is just not ok.

All it really needs is dialogue option to see the lacking supply. The player tells the trader
"What are you missing"
And the trader answers with a list of items he needs as follows:

4/7 Buffout
3/10 psycho
500/500000 223. ammo
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Solar

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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 01:15:44 pm »

The new lists will already stop good stuff being traded for crap.

The penalties for the price based upon how much the trader already has achieves the same penalties to trading the same items too much.

Both of those achieve the same spirit as this suggestion without having to rewrite how traders work (Again!). 
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Vandal

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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 01:46:56 pm »

Solar can you explain a little bit how barter works? I mean I have an alt that has 130% barter 10 CH and I can only sell some stuff in general store (san francisco city) and others mechants won't take any of my items (guns, ammo, armors, drugs, pelts, parts, anything), why?
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avv

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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012, 01:58:18 pm »

The new lists will already stop good stuff being traded for crap.

The penalties for the price based upon how much the trader already has achieves the same penalties to trading the same items too much.

Both of those achieve the same spirit as this suggestion without having to rewrite how traders work (Again!).

Let's hope. But players have the tendency to amass items and sell them even for pitiful price if they can get what they can turn crap into useful items that. This can be withnessed with the hoards of ammo and fruits that exist in shops. If fruit or ammo is worth even one cap, it will be massed and sold. You see if bb is worth even 1 cap, you basically craft 50 caps every time you craft one dose of bbs.
So there needs to be good prices for quality items and absolute 0 for crap.
And even if fruits and ammo no longer give any money and the trader has room for example spears, knives and whatever, players will bring those. They will keep bringing junk as long as it's worth something.

Shops autorestocking is also a problem because it basically resets the shop and allows players to bring their junk there again, leaving the shop empty of actually wanted items. Restock in nutshell is "Wohoo I get to change my junk into treasures"
Restocking also means that players won't even consider selling their good stuff because they know their junk will be useful sooner or later, so they stash it and wait for restock. They might log off in the next door inside the shop and keep logging back in to check if the restock has occured.

One way to combat the two problems would be:
- Shops only restock quality items and cash but when restock occurs, the items they bought from players won't disappear. So if someone sold 5 radios 2 years ago and nobody bought them, it's still there.
- prices for items drop to absolute zero after the shopkeeper has enough
- shops buy like 3-5 pieces of same product, until it's no longer worth anything. Ammo and drugs more.

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S.T.A.L.K.E.R

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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2012, 02:09:00 pm »

I agree, you got my vote cause I hate the new shopping system.
Terrible..
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vilaz

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Re: how should shops work
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2012, 03:11:33 pm »

but... how... how about possibility to dismantle almost everything and crafting almost everything from basic parts?

I mean... dismantling spear would give you a chance for some junk or metal parts. Really small amount of that and low chance but still. Same for knives and other HtH weapons. Then Rope back to fibers, radio into junk and metal parts well basically everything with downward tendency.

If you have 200 spears. That would mean they were produced with:
400 junk
100 sharpened poles
100 metal parts
Then after dismantling this stuff you would get at most (let's just say) 80% of resources with maximized science and dismantler perk.

Then adding possibility of crafting high tier stuff with LOTS of low tier stuff. For example 10-20 alloys could make you one advanced alloys. 20 junk could get you electronic parts. Same for Metal parts and gunpowder with let's say some other extra easy obtainable material (junk, hides, broc flowers, flints etc.) but in enormous quantities.

So with recovered:
320 junk
80 Sharpened poles
80 metal parts

You can craft:
16 electronic part
Eh... uh... it's wood right? I dunno gluing it back to log? Meh nevermind this one.
4-8 hq metal parts
etc.

Time consuming but would give use for useless right now junk. I know spears can be sold for caps but this is just an example. All of these were random numbers just for presenting idea. It would need some balance but could work.

tl;dr
Give me 200 spears, 1000BB's, 100knifes and I'll smelt it into minigun with ammo for one or two series.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 03:14:03 pm by vilaz »
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