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[Wallace]

(...) because we stay rooted in the originals. There's still enough flexibility and tools in the original set-up to have multiple niches without abandoning the Fallout conventions.

I don't mean to be an ass but after so many changes in the fallout mechanics hearing that is kinda like hipocricy...

[Solar]

I think you should try it first. Then we can talk balance.

[Wallace]

Heh... balance issue was never mentioned by me...

Nor was it condemnation from my side... It's just reading those words you wrote something "cracked" in my sense of judgement as there's something terribly wrong with that line of yours.

I mean that after you changed drugs in previous era, now traits and perks even more (not to mention myriad of other things) it is hard to agree that you stay rooted in the originals



As for balance lemme ask you a question first - how much gaming experience do you have (devs) with your own game? (Playing as a regular player and not a GM/dev)

[Solar]

I was replying to Tommo.

Changes happen, drugs didn't suit MP, perks needed changing to expand the char niches (a lot of them were reworked from van buren perks too, not totally new). Changing something which is perfectly suitable is another matter.

The flat bonus system can do anything a percentage system can, so there's no need to change.

As for balance, I played at the beginning of last wipe, I will be playing at the beginning of the season when the high priority bugs are done and I have time.

The only advantage I have are the spreadsheets with accurate formulas showing me what all the weapons do vs every armour and an accurate knowledge of what the perks do. However the real picture won't emerge for a good few weeks I think.

I would be amazed if several changes were needed though - if my ballpark guesses turned out to be perfect balance I'd die of shock

[RavenousRat]

About pyro for molotov:
It'll be worse than plasma nade, but you'll have alternative damage type (explosion instead of plasma), also molotov has on 3 max range less than nade, also your character will have on 2 perks less. So it can be used by flamer builds, who like to throw molotovs instead of plasmas, it'll make molotov 56-64 damage from 16-24. While plasma nade has 40-90 damage, what on 5 average damage more, so you trade 2 perks for less resource consuming, and also suffer less range. It's not OP.

[Tomowolf]

I just took pyromanic perk and it didnt even say where its damage added, or how much (even not to the maximum weapon damage like flamer Iam using now) nut still isntead of 32 - 40 dmg to brahmin I dealt like 50 damage, so it adds some.

Need moar levels to get second pyromanic, then I'am home.

[Solar]

Its +20 each.

50-85 -> 70-105 -> 90-125 for a normal flamer

[Wallace]

I was replying to Tommo.

Changes happen, drugs didn't suit MP, perks needed changing to expand the char niches (a lot of them were reworked from van buren perks too, not totally new). Changing something which is perfectly suitable is another matter.

The flat bonus system can do anything a percentage system can, so there's no need to change.

As for balance, I played at the beginning of last wipe, I will be playing at the beginning of the season when the high priority bugs are done and I have time.

The only advantage I have are the spreadsheets with accurate formulas showing me what all the weapons do vs every armour and an accurate knowledge of what the perks do. However the real picture won't emerge for a good few weeks I think.

I would be amazed if several changes were needed though - if my ballpark guesses turned out to be perfect balance I'd die of shock

IMO you guys (devs) need more gaming experience to balance things out

Adding things from Van Buren is bold!

[Johnnybravo]

Tactics which are quite similar to Fonline (with exception of more useful and complex environment) used %mods quite a lot.
It allowed some perks to be useful in all situations where they benefit, instead of being marginally low somewhere and extremely important elsewhere. Just look at how BRD is in F1/2/Fonline and in Tactics. IIRC tactics gives 10% damage per it's two ranks to ranged weapons, which makes it as useful to minigun as to rocket launcher. OFC that this kind of perk would need other perks that you would want instead, so it's not the only way to go (and this is still what is wrong with lifegiver, by the way), but it would at least be more than "get this if you want to use miniguns", which also translates "you need another character to play miniguns, even if you already have machinegunner".
Now you also have already mentioned pyromaniac, fast shot, bonus melee damage or living anatomy, not to mention there already are percentage mods :d.

[Aves]

noone should complain about changes in game balance before making tables  with calculated possible varieties of end results. 
I think it all moved in good direction,   question is are major specs equal?  and should it be possible to make ridiculous alts for PK only?  maby stats should be limited to min 3 max 9?

[Solar]

Wallace, I'm happier basing it off player feedback and numbers. 1 person's experience (mine) would be quite limited in value. I'll play because I enjoy it :p

Johnny, we don't need perks to be equally useful for everything, so that's not a problem.

[jodwig]

maby stats should be limited to min 3 max 9?

Huh? WTF!?

@Solar I'm modding Fallout 3 and New Vegas since 2008, so I know how it is to be dev and how balancing/modding everything works, so keep up the good work

P.S. How many people actually work on balancing perks/weapons/armors etc.?

[Tomowolf]

Its +20 each.

50-85 -> 70-105 -> 90-125 for a normal flamer

Still in description I got (after one pyromanic)50-85, is it right, anyway I deal more damage, but still using cheaper rocket launcher is better)

[Solar]

P.S. How many people actually work on balancing perks/weapons/armors etc.?

Generally, they would be some of my things.

[Wallace]

Wallace, I'm happier basing it off player feedback and numbers. 1 person's experience (mine) would be quite limited in value. I'll play because I enjoy it :p

So what are you...? Doing math how many players like a feature how many doesn't, wether there's any response at all or an ovewhelming one? C'mon!

I bet that you will never make you can make this game balanced untili more than half of you devs will be playing this game and feel it's balance by yourselves