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Author Topic: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs  (Read 2105 times)

Haraldx

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Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« on: January 08, 2012, 01:30:01 pm »
Strength: 8
Level: 1
Unarmed: 82%
Chance to hit a raider: 80% (90% when knocked out)
Every second hit is a knockdown. However, in message log, Heavy Handed KD doesn't report, so at best I can make a video. (Might have it about 40 minutes later, might not)
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JovankaB

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2012, 01:33:30 pm »
Quote from: Haraldx on January 08, 2012, 01:30:01 pm
Strength: 8
Level: 1
Unarmed: 82%
Chance to hit a raider: 80% (90% when knocked out)
Every second hit is a knockdown. However, in message log, Heavy Handed KD doesn't report, so at best I can make a video. (Might have it about 40 minutes later, might not)

0.80 (chance to hit) * 0.80 (chance for ST roll success) = 0.64, so it's 64%.
I guess it can feel like "every second time".
Get more unarmed and/or take buffout.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 01:35:32 pm by JovankaB »
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Haraldx

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2012, 02:22:17 pm »
It's kind of ridiculous.
Took a video, which got almost interrupted by reese and 2 other guys.  ;D
You will be able to clearly see that more than 50% of my hits make my enemy knocked down.
EDIT: Video uploading, should appear here shortly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUNe1bns7co&
EDIT 2: Done
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUNe1bns7co" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUNe1bns7co</a>
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 02:40:19 pm by Haraldx »
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Lizard

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2012, 02:49:43 pm »
But why should it be bad? it gives more  chances for HtH builds.
I test it right now in combination with bruiser and 1LK and can still take succesfully on a pack of rats, btw.
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Haraldx

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2012, 03:07:05 pm »
I'm not saying it is overpowered, but it just gave me a huge smile and almost wanted to burst into a laugh when I started to attack something. Everyone is now gonna use stonewall or lvl 1 unarmed trolls will come and knock them all down. :D:D:D
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JovankaB

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2012, 03:14:18 pm »
Oh, I thought you complain that it's too weak :P I was a bit surprised.
I like this trait the way it is. It's too early to say whether it's balanced or not.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 03:21:03 pm by JovankaB »
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Mithguar

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2012, 05:04:53 pm »
Well it's not too early. At this moment it's like slayer perk given extra to trait. Only difference is you don't have crit dmg, just KD. Normaly traits give something and take something. In each other Trait, the things you get are around equal to the things you loose. What this Trait take away? You get more melee dmg as a trade for less crit. And  knock downs for... A wait... you get KD for free...
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JovankaB

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2012, 05:21:30 pm »
Yea dude it is too early, because characters are poor and undeveloped to say anything about PvP.
Unarmed have obvious advantage early on with depleted resources. But this game doesn't revolve around punching rats.

Although you are right critical-based malus is kind of irrelevant for "fast puncher".
Doesn't mean bonus is too strong.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 05:25:20 pm by JovankaB »
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Solar

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2012, 05:30:49 pm »
The small extra melee damage is not a 1:1 trade for a big drop in criticals. If HH is a bit useful then at least that's progress.

Of course, that's not to say these things don't need tweaks to them. :)
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Lizard

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2012, 05:35:06 pm »
I say the KD is a pretty valid point to have a Stonewall perk taken - and in PvP against firearms the HtH Chargers will be a powerful support, especially on +AC drugs. One takes the enemy down, the other shreds him with a BG.

It's a dream, devs. HtH finally means something, without being imba. But let's see how it develops.
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Solar

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2012, 05:43:06 pm »
Quote
HtH finally means something, without being imba.

That's the dream, lets hold its still considered useful in 3 weeks :)
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Quote from: Woodrow Wilson
If you want to make enemies, try to change something.

Lupus

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2012, 05:51:30 pm »
Quote from: Lizard on January 08, 2012, 05:35:06 pm
I say the KD is a pretty valid point to have a Stonewall perk taken - and in PvP against firearms the HtH Chargers will be a powerful support, especially on +AC drugs. One takes the enemy down, the other shreds him with a BG.

It's a dream, devs. HtH finally means something, without being imba. But let's see how it develops.


Agree and for other HtH there is also other perk "In your Face!" which makes fight even more interesting. But from new perks also Crit Mele looks very interesting, without takeing Heavy Handed. I would say we have BoS Scribes era ;)
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FrankenStone

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2012, 05:57:16 pm »
Its Imba and not balanced it cant  be that u lose a minigun and high tier stuff to some metalarmor HH Troll
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Roachor

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2012, 06:13:18 pm »
Here comes the whine train, -30% on the crit table is a huge debuff so don't give me this "hh has no drawbacks" bullshit. HH is the only thing making unarmed viable since crit builds are useless. Unarmed non crit hits do shit damage, if you can't keep moving in this game it's your own fault. Do you stand still and get one hexed by avengers and complain about that too?
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Perteks

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Re: Heavy Handed trait is a joke against NPCs
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2012, 06:37:14 pm »
Just make stonewall and quick recovery work against HH
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