Other > General Game Discussion

Whats up with new players?

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Izual:
I'd also be very interested in seeing these "huge nice greatly interesting beginners guides", because I don't know of any. Of course the wiki teaches a few tricks and there are a few (outdated, though) mining guide, but there's no guide to explain how to make caps easily and how to avoid being ganked. The "beginners should have know, there are a lot of ways to learn that" thing is just a lame excuse to make others suffer just as you did. Not saying you shouldn't actually kill any beginner, but helping newbies is just common sense for anyone that would like to see more players on the server.

Haraldx:

--- Quote from: Izual on January 09, 2012, 04:48:57 PM ---how to make caps easily

--- End quote ---
Even older users don't seem to know that since wipe. All I can say is this wipe has gave people more interaction between each other. Who would have thought people would want to trade 2 regular alloys? But it's true, I traded them for 3 metal parts. He helped me get my spiked knuckles, I helped him to make his flamer. But how did I get those 2 alloys? Oh, some dude in NCR just started throwing around some stuff, and he also threw out 2 .44 magnums. Dissasemble ---> get parts ---> trade with others. After having hard hours of trying to get more metal parts for my tools of destruction, I just couldn't do it and started murdering pretty much everyone who I saw.

Lupus:

--- Quote from: Stration on January 09, 2012, 01:59:44 PM ---You get it all so terribly wrong now, but don't give up, think[box], and you will learn.
--- End quote ---

You just justify your deeds, for me all what you create arround it its simply called BS and it has nothing 2 do with outside the box thinking. If you ever think to start your own religion, stop, you will flood people with truisms and pointless ideas - and you know, angry people are dangerous.

I respect people who can admit, "yes Im killing noobs, mid and old players coz its fun, its my way to play" - I might not agree but at least I respect their point of view.


@Mother Theresa of the Wastes
I was refering to Stration's post and to be honest you havent disagreed with me, actually we share same point of view, at least in this case.

Stration:

--- Quote from: TommyTheGun on January 09, 2012, 03:47:27 PM ---When I used to play the game more often, I happened to follow some folks into the tent just to tell them they have to beware and explain them how to get rid of tent followers.
--- End quote ---

I'm doing basically the same thing, except that I also reinforce my message by actually killing them and looting/disassembling their belongings.


--- Quote from: TommyTheGun on January 09, 2012, 03:47:27 PM ---when you're new to the game and someone just happens to come to your tent and shoot you in the face to rob everything you were working for since you started, the first thing that comes to your mind is:

"Oh damn, I should know theres probably some following system and probably the best way to avoid it is to look at the window where i probably will se whos after me while I'm on the world map. It doesnt matter I didnt realise theres such window yet, since everything is new to me but I guess I could have read the fucking manual, since this is obviously the very first thing EVERY player do, when starting the new game in order to see if its fun or not. Gee, thank God some wonderfully helpfull guardian angel robbed me from everything I had to offer me this valuable lesson. When I think about it I should probably reconsider what that "tickling" thing means, cause I was sure it's healing but after such a wonderfull experience I probably should guess.... Wait a second, that must be stealing from me! It's so obvious now!"
--- End quote ---

You're being sardonic, but yes, that *is* pretty much the way it goes. If you kill a guy, he sees that he can be killed. Should you follow him to his tent, he suddenly realizes that he can be followed to his tent. Although explaining things might seem to be a viable method of teaching newbies, you have to remember that the vast majority of new players here either have a very limited command of English, or are completely unwilling to engage in any conversation whatsoever (the latter often stemming from the former). In a nutshell, if you only explain things to them, it *might* help them; if you demonstrate things to them, it *will* help them.


--- Quote from: TommyTheGun on January 09, 2012, 03:47:27 PM ---You probably should also remember that people new to FOnline probably never experienced such "hardcore" MMO before and they are used to a bit different sort of players. (...)
--- End quote ---
The arguments you've used only further substantiate my point of view. It's true that FO differs from any other game of its kind, but that is *precisely* the reason why we should not treat new players any different than we treat those that have been around for, let's say, a year or two.


--- Quote from: TommyTheGun on January 09, 2012, 03:47:27 PM ---Anyway, I think I understand what you're trying to say, but It's still justifying yourself for doing a nasty, nasty things.
--- End quote ---
I can see your point, but you're incorrect.



--- Quote from: TommyTheGun on January 09, 2012, 03:47:27 PM ---And also, theres a polish statement that
(...) every victim becomes executioner with time or something like this. It's true and fcking annoying in real life so why would it work and also be fucking annoying here?
--- End quote ---
That's the part of what I'm saying where most people get me wrong. This is a game. There is *no* victim-oppressor relationship here. If you insist on using this sort of analogy, use that of a hunter and the prey.

The bottom line is that in any online game, new players typically realize from the very beginning that they are indeed ideal prey for the seasoned veterans, in one way or another, but what usually keeps them from quitting is the desire to become 'a hunter' as well. Becoming 'a hunter' doesn't necessarily mean becoming "that asshole PK from the neighborhood," they might just as well choose the noble path of anti-PK'ing. It's also worth mentioning that if you hand everything on a platter to your new players, they will soon lose interest.

As a rule of thumb, we should always assume that if someone decided to play a game based on Fallout/Fallout 2, they know what they're doing and expect no form of preferential treatment from anybody.

TommyTheGun:
@Stration


--- Quote ---I'm doing basically the same thing, except that I also reinforce my message by actually killing them and looting/disassembling their belongings.
--- End quote ---

As long as you explain them a thing or two, It's fine by me. I still think it's pretty weak - taking advantage of the weakest - but at least they have an actual possibility of learning something about the game.


--- Quote ---You're being sardonic, but yes, that *is* pretty much the way it goes. If you kill a guy, he sees that he can be killed. Should you follow him to his tent, he suddenly realizes that he can be followed to his tent. Although explaining things might seem to be a viable method of teaching newbies, you have to remember that the vast majority of new players here either have a very limited command of English, or are completely unwilling to engage in any conversation whatsoever (the latter often stemming from the former). In a nutshell, if you only explain things to them, it *might* help them; if you demonstrate things to them, it *will* help them.
--- End quote ---

You're missing the point here. If they don't know why or how they've been killed, they won't learn anything. Let's say they've been followed and killed but haven't met anyone who would explain them how it happened or how to avoid it yet. So they fall for that again. Maybe they don't even see icons above their heads indicating if someone follows them. You really want to call it lack of willingness to learn? You really think that should be punished by using their lack of knowgledge over and over again? Cause I, again, think it's just weak. Maybe theres another thing in it, but I'll get to that.


--- Quote ---The arguments you've used only further substantiate my point of view. It's true that FO differs from any other game of its kind, but that is *precisely* the reason why we should not treat new players any different than we treat those that have been around for, let's say, a year or two.
--- End quote ---

That would be a good way of thinking if we had actually 600 real players right now, not 400 alts of ten people. Also - I'm not saying - don't kill people, I repeat - play the game playerbase-wise aswell.

And also - I know I might be boring with the RP attitude, but if I were an awesome, superhandsome and supercool badass coldblood killer, like most of players here, I would just feel... I don't know... stupid - robbing a fcking shovel and a pack of cigarettes...

--- Quote ---I can see your point, but you're incorrect.
--- End quote ---

You can do better that that, but okay - I'm gonna correct myself:

Anyway, I think I understand what you're trying to say, but It's still justifying yourself for doing a nasty, nasty things in my point of view.

Did that fix it for you or you want me to write some more obvious stuff?


--- Quote ---That's the part of what I'm saying where most people get me wrong. This is a game. There is *no* victim-oppressor relationship here.
--- End quote ---

OFCOURSE there is, dude. You're playing with the same full-of-flaws people that you meet in your life and most of them are not able to look on the whole thing from the right perspective. (I should also mention here, that neither of us can be sure if we have the right perspective, obviously.) They WILL feel humiliated and they WILL get angry not understanding what's going on and why they get constantly killed.

I agree that wasteland should be harsh though. And unfortunatelly I cant think of anny flawless method of combining introducing people to the harsh world of "big bad muthafuckaz", and letting them taste as much bullets as possible when the time comes.

I think the main difference in our thinking is - You seem to expect every player to be hardcore-gamer or/and someone very bright when it comes to understanding computers, interfaces etc. Like casual players were something worse.

Oh. And at the end - Keep in mind my not-so-perfect english ;) I think we would save ourselves some keyboard hits if not for the language issues :>

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