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[gr1m055]

I understand the idea behind these weapons is realism. But this is a video game, and takes place in an unrealistic universe. I mean radiation doesn't create giant molerats and ghouls for example. But I do not want to argue realism in this game.

How about instead of making it where you can't run with LSW/M60 if you guys make them ranged weapons. Make it like a Scoped hunting rifle weapon where you can't 1 hex with it. I can get that 1 hexing with these weapons with x3 BRD would be way too powerful because of their ammo and I think that's the impression I get on this decision.

It just makes no sense to me why you make it you can't run with these weapons, even in PvE its annoying weapon to use when you can't run. Many players are used to run and gun in this game and it just doesn't feel like 2238 making it where you can't run with these weapons.

I think players well not use these weapons at all and well just scrap them and not take the time to farm them. Big guns weapon tree doesn't have many weapons and you are taking away 2 weapons that would be of any use. That leaves us with miniguns/avengers and rocket launchers that's all players well be using.

The LSW is a good weapon, and M60 is good if you want to bring low tier gear. I mean really if you're going to make these weapons where you can't run you might as well just remove them from the game if you want to make it where players won't like using these weapons.

Maybe not everybody agrees with me on this, but still I cannot stand not being able to run. I mean you're just going to make people rage quit when they use these weapons when they can't run away killing NPCs with their new special melee abilities.

[avv]

But Solar said you can run, but if you do it takes time to shoot the gun. If you walk or stand still, you can fire instantly. Honestly that's not so bad mechanic... well it is bad if minigun can still run.

[gr1m055]

Oh... I guess I missed this?

Off topic:
Did they update the beta yet with this idea and the new EW requirements for perks?

[greece crisis]

good ide? so now i can shoot only one and sg can hit me 3-4times? is that balance? bgs have 6-7ap for i shoot and sg 4-5 and now same or better range

[avv]

Did they update the beta yet with this idea and the new EW requirements for perks

No. And EW still can't get brof or weapon handling.

good ide? so now i can shoot only one and sg can hit me 3-4times? is that balance? bgs have 6-7ap for i shoot and sg 4-5 and now same or better range

Yes it's balance called firepower for mobility. Let's hope not too much mobility, nobody wants lsw and m60 to become useless. Even though m60 is pretty bad as it is.
In addition sg does pitiful damage from range and bg may take rocket. p90 and smgs have actual role now with the sudden death perk but rifles and shotguns are still completely pointless.

What comes to damage, here's how p90 compares against lsw.

3xbrd p90 vs plain BA
62 64 45 65 29 52 56 56
average: 53,6

nobrd lsw vs plain BA
72, 21, 77, 68, 56, 81, 72, 82
average: 57

Note that p90 has 3x brd, lsw doesn't need those to do sufficient damage.
P90 might shoot more often but lsw has better range. Range is actually damn important because moving means you're not regenerating action points and that you are spending time in enemy's line of fire. Range becomes more and more important when we're talking about group vs group.
While p90 might defeat lsw in 1vs1, lsw is better all-rounder, depending on how the deployment time will work.

[greece crisis]

try with fn fal. damage is same as m60 and range is 30. they should boost xl7e to something little better that fn damagre or range and all sg crying noobs who are to poor for bgs would stop crying...

[gr1m055]

LOL? The Sniper rifle isn't even farmable the sniper rifle is more rare than rocket launchers and Miniguns. SG users by all means are not poor noob cry babies as so you speak. If anything this session is the result of people cry babying about SG cripplers with all the anti-crit perks.

SG bursting weapons weren't meant to be high end weapons anyways in the basic fallout1/2 game. You would get assault rifles and FN FAL use it until you got Gauss rifle or G11e.

SG bursters in 2238 in my opinion were good for farming because they are cheap and common. And P90 bursters rocked hinkly.

But you know this next session I think is going to be a buster heaven SG or BG with all these anti-crit perks. But we well see, I mean SG bursting weapons are super easy to get so they really shouldn't be that powerful.

[greece crisis]

well non everyone will use man of stell and still snipers have perk right between the eyes. making 25%crit sniper cost you lvl 3/6 perks and lvl 9 better crits. after that it is all up to you. sharpshooter -12 riht between the eyes - 15 and you still have 3perks to go 1-2life givers and action boy or somethin smilar. this sesion has snipers 20-25% but nex is all to 25%. same thing with bg/ew crtis build, you can take perk spray and prey to disable armors modificators. even with perk man of stell you still have 10-15% to crit hit with bg gun.

[T-888]

This is so wrong , stop calculating and theory crafting * grabs a knife and points *. When wipe hits you will have a chance to give feedback about balance of the weapons and everything that has been changed , i learned that it just needs to be tested first before serious discussion , otherwise very unproductive.

[Michaelh139]

This is so wrong , stop calculating and theory crafting * grabs a knife and points *. When wipe hits you will have a chance to give feedback about balance of the weapons and everything that has been changed , i learned that it just needs to be tested first before serious discussion , otherwise very unproductive.

Maybe people are tired of waiting to test,(which majority have waited a whole year already for, which is ridiclous time compared to what people are used to) and figure they might as well theorize, even if it's useless?

There is no point in tell them this, because they will do it anyways   Due to boredom, and the 2238 soon jitters.




@topic:  I think it this way.

SG should have minimal time to shoot after movement.
M60 and LSW should habe medium to shoot after movement.
Minigun, Avenger, and rocket launcher should have high amount to shoot after movement.


SG will be used as offense, BG has defense.

I see assault rifle and p90 as first charge, then lsw/m60, then once position is made, bring in the big guns and pull up a siege.

But of course, I cannot test, because client simply will not work.  always getting "error" no matter how many times i set it up again, in slightly different ways .  SO this is pure theorize from what information i have currently from others.

[avv]

Minigun, Avenger, and rocket launcher should have high amount to shoot after movement.

Remember that miniguns need 3x brd to work, it's a big enough downside. They can be honestly as slow as lsw.

But of course, I cannot test, because client simply will not work.  always getting "error" no matter how many times i set it up again, in slightly different ways .  SO this is pure theorize from what information i have currently from others.

Did you start the game using FOnlineD3D.exe?

[JovankaB]

I believe this change was done mostly to nerf LSW sneakers (I might be wrong though, but I don't really see a problem with LSW besides that).
I think it would be better to add sneak penalties for running with weapons in item slot. Something like

unarmed: no penalty
melee, throwing: -10%
small gun, energy: -30%
big gun: -100%

[solid snake]

i agree with jovankaB about the LSW sneakers. i remember solar saying a while back it was going to be harder to be one.

IMO the M60, LSW, and miniguns should deploy the weapon and act as an ultimate defense. deployment and becoming non-stationary would take time, but anyone in your threat range could not stand a chance. through a specific class tree you would have the highest HP possible throughout all builds. while being the most resilient to crits than any other class as well. bazooka builds would act as a support class as snipers should, but also having somewhat higher HP than a sniper, due to shorter range. flamers could rush into buildings, dealing massive damage while using dodger and toughness effects...

[avv]

i agree with jovankaB about the LSW sneakers. i remember solar saying a while back it was going to be harder to be one.

Lsw sneakers were actually pretty balanced. They are weak, pack some punch vs weak armor but nothing special. I hope it's still doable after wipe.

[solid snake]

i agree it was balanced. i even got by as a lone sneaker with an M60. i as well would like see it post wipe but at the same time i would enjoy seeing BG bursters role change in general to give room for SG bursters. i love the sneaking gun and run aspect with sneak bursting (thats how i played it at least) but id like to see sneak flamers. flamers being somewhat like 1 hex bursters.