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[greece crisis]

why he cant be healed by other players or see names over heads? he cant follow or be merc leader so solo players can make tb/rt traps using radio but after that they are on their own. i am saing 1vs2 (ncr trolls/crafters) not pvp builds ;] so if you want to make tank build with loner perk your ++/+++ perks same class will be boosted : ++toughnes +1/5% resist. ++/+++brd +1/2damage. ++/+++lg +10/+15hp. ++critical chance +5%crits and boosted +15% main skills so he can be medic/armor/weapon crafter and also pvp build at same time because it is +45%to skill so one char can make all shit what is doing your alt crafter. about mercs - they are allready nerfed so i wouldnt change anything. this build with lover would kick ass in pvp/pve battles but in tc it could be usless. and loner should be able to join vc/bos/enclave/raiders to get crafter class. so i see a lot of loner platers and they are to weak to make 2nd char so one loner char could be little better than typical pvp build. with 10ag/10str and +++lg and +++brd char would have 305hp (290+15), +9damage (7+2). and loner cant follow r be leader of any group and he cant be invited as friend to bases.

[greece crisis]

and i would call this perk not "loner" but "dirty harry"

[Slaver Snipe]

Well, I'm not in the closed beta but if what I see on the character planner is correct fast metabolism is still in? Perhaps there could be a trait for leader characters that involve either your Slaves lvling up 10-20% faster, a lower chance of them revolting against you  upkeep on them lowered or even +to their AC?  I mean if you give loners a trait leaders deserve one too! 

[Lizard]

Okay, now...

I think the Loner perk sucks balls as it is - so i state as an experienced FOnline player.
If you don't want another PvP ape alt, you shall waste 3 perk slots on MagneticPersonality, so you can bring a brahmin to your tent for some hot roleplay.

Also, i call bullshit on this:

well it is 330:)

i prefer more pvp or pve bonus skills. loner need to be more tougher than normal player. so maby it will be extra 20%bonus to ++perk, ++toughes you can get +1/5% more resist, same with ++/+++brd +1-2damage more, ++/+++life giver +15-25 bonus hp...it would depent what you want to be good at, and/or 20% main skill. so loner could handle small pvp group or large pve encounter. i know it will be littler to much but with that solution solo player with loner perk can be hard like a rock...solo motherfucker...;]

[baaelSiljan]

Every loner in postapo movies gets into trouble when find some group and otherhand people mostly want to join loner. Every loner is bad ass jack of all trades, who is on his epic lonely quest and want to stay safe and away from troubles.

pros not in party:
  - outdoorsman +some nice value
  - PE, AG, EN, LK +some nice value
  - safer tent
  - stronger back to carry more weight
  - faster craft
  - better barter
  - PvE +%

traits general:
  - cant join gang
  - cant have more than 1 slave
  - PvP -%


traits in party:
  - removed all pros of loner trait
  - only one loner in party, and people love him ( cha of all in party -2)
  - loner gets into trouble ( -luck, -pe, -en, -ag)
  - people gets into trouble - so loner have to rescue them (some big % more chance of missing hit in fight, -% to critics for all in party)
  - loner hates walking with peoples cause it is loud and not safe (- big value of outdoorsman for party)


This trait should be for people who want to play as loner not for alts etc.

Start looking about 2:50, from 5:10 jump to 7:05

check how McCoy is playing loner and interacting with people,

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zq7gBou5SE" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zq7gBou5SE</a>

[JovankaB]

traits general:
  - cant join gang
  - cant have more than 1 slave


traits in party:

If you want prevent alting with more powerful loner, you CAN'T allow the loner to travel in party.
Because it would mean loner can assist other alts in 100% safe locations.

Rule "tagging has no effect" is simple and takes care of most team features (sneaking among friends/traveling with taxi/joining gang/sharing locations). There is still a little problem with radio and especially with car locations, that maybe would have to be dealt somehow separately.

I also think instead of creating complicated bonuses just increasing level cap is better, because it gives more freedom about the build. Why loner has to be jack of ALL trades? Loner still can try to get help in towns, from other people or NPCs. 3 extra levels maybe is too much, but maybe if HP didn't increase after 24 level, it wouldn't be imba in PvP and wouldn't be abused for gang PvP alt purposes.

[baaelSiljan]

ok simplier:

Loner in party means party gets in trouble. Loner in party means loner gets in trouble.
Loner can't join gang. Loner is trait for people who won't to join anyone, who just play for fun lonely, like me.
Loner is one who do everything himself, sometimes trade. He will escape from fight. And may be good in 1vs1 but 1vsMany isn't for him.

So such trait shouldn't be nice for alts (it may also level slower than faster - like Eli who traveled 30 years), but have to give much fun for players who are outside of gangs wars. Who sometimes come to hub or ncr for a drink, barter, speak about rumors, who is valuable as crafter but is not crafting machine for gang.

And party get big cons when travelling with loner - if You don't allow him traveling in party big part of game lost its sense. When loner joins party it take more charisma, so party will not be big, and even it needs more cha to invite loner into party.

Hey, but this is only my own vision I dont have enough knowledge about mechanics, also it need to be tested if it works.

[Solar]

I think some ideas are a little bit ambitious

Having acess to another top level perk is a big bonus, I dont think thats right. Something like a free low level perk, free 20% on selected skills starting levels, a free dog follower with high outdoors - these things are more reaslistic.

Slight boosts that will help a loner get up and running.

[JovankaB]

Well, if it's about easier start, call the perk "Noober" Experienced players don't need it, definitely it's not worth any malus for them.
But I think it would be a good idea, to add a trait that would make life easier for newbies.

In that case I think things that are real pain for noobs should be studied and considered, not things that "sound cool" (like the dog, sorry).

Something that makes you stronger/more immune on low levels but slightly weaker (by a tiny fracion, just enough to scare away power players/alters) on high level.

Bonus example: until level 9 you respawn with the items you had when you died (to prevent this to be looter trait the chance to get item on respawn should depend on how strong the item is, BA,plasma rifle = 0% chance, 10mm pistol = 100%, quest items = 100% )
Malus: no idea, something small that kicks in over level 15, preferably malus for PvP

Or maybe the dog could bring your items to you after death

[Savager]

I like solar idea. If the dog is better than the commons, and the posibility of level up. Because if haves like 40 hp and die from 2 mantis, whould suck BAD. Like in max level being same power than a baby deathclaw whould be good.

[Slaver Snipe]

How about when you first create your character you get the free dog (maybe give it 1-2 toughness or something to make it not a walk in the park for everything to kill +living anatomy) possibly giving you awareness or when you have said dog your PE is increased by 1-2 points.  After the dog dies you have the option of buying the same type from the dog dealer whereas anyone without this trait could only get the terrible ones and yes the dog should be able to level up/possibly rebuy the dog for higher price so it keeps it's levels.

[baaelSiljan]

I think newbie thing may increase alt characters count.

Other approach: "loner guild".

When You got loner trait You cannot join party, but there are some outposts (loner motels - based on "Café of Broken Dreams") for loners only, here sellers got lower barter skill and You may rent a room or buy cheap dog. Some enemies in encounters dont fight with loners, and maybe something like "derusted items" - standard items which are little better (for example +few % of dmg) but detoration of items is extremely high and items are very fallible without loner trait. Also such items may be done only from standard items via fixboy "derust" recipe. (I take this idea from MadMax car, which was usable only for Rocketansky)

ps. outpost may be visible on map only for loners

[jangling]

extra skill points and 0 party points + no slaves seems balanced. anything making you stronger is overpowered and will be abused.
not being able to tag/follow is impractical and damages roleplay, making loner purely for alts and apes.
What would mad max be if he never interacted with other characters in the movie? a guy sitting there eating beans with a dog, not very exciting.

an extra tag skill ino would be perfect (if it can be done).

[Chrupek]

tagging off
cant use science on hides, when loner is in map

And then loner would be really loner, so can hae some bonus. But why someone is a loner? Because he can handle himself, and dont need any help. So maybe some extra skill points for crafting skills? Extra slot for profession? Ability to make 3 tents (but still loner tents)? Free dog every respawn?

[baaelSiljan]

What would mad max be if he never interacted with other characters in the movie?

he would be happy and interaction doesn't mean party

Not very exciting for You, but I almost 2 years play as loner and I love it (that's why this thread is interesting for me). There are many play styles and loners are mostly casual players who play for fun before sleep. Loner should be little overpowered but not usable for alts, slower leveling cause it is for fun, not for fast exping killer for gang and it makes too difficult creating loner as alt. Even relog time may be much longer (but I guess this is not possible or hard to set it individual)