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[wladimiiir]

What about tagging 4 skills instead of 3. Maybe the 4th one could be only non combat skill.
But I really like the outdoorsman boost idea and dog idea too.

[avv]

Maybe the effects should be lessened a bit? Harsh giveaways deserve big benefits and big benefits are like blood on water for sharks. Abusing cheater sharks.
For example like this: when alone you move faster in WM but when in group it moves slower in general.

Almost every trait, perk or feature can be used by these nasty PvP apes, I heard there are even BG sneakers. Let's leave that "argument", shall we?

Yeah but certain people are ready to go to incredible lengths to get an edge over others. That then encourages their competitors to do the same or suffer defeat. Call it the Vicious Circle of Abuse. So those abusers shouldn't be tempted to abuse in first place.

For now Loner is useless as it is (to keep classic quote alive). To make it useful, we need to answer one important question - what solo player needs? Higher combat skill? Not much. Higher barter skill? Kinda. Higher "crafting" skills, to get rid of alts? Yes.
So in my not humble opinion Loner should work like a decent bonus for Science, Repair, Outdoorsman, maybe even Barter, maybe even ability to set a Ranger Camp without having a Ranger perk. I mean hell, you resign from having any in-game friends or gang mates, you can't join any group, you can't buy a base, you have to be self-sufficient Mad Max Wannabe wastelander, no alts required. That's real sacrifice in multiplayer game.

You would have to have all skills 300%, infinite ammount of tents available and max cw to reflect the tradeoff for not having alts and that wouldn't even be enough. The choices available for someone who uses alts vs someone who doesn't is rather massive. This trait can never compete with the options alts unlock to a player and it shouldn't because in the end shouldn't the whole game encourage to not have support alts?

[RavenousRat]

PvE boost if you're alone in encounter or instance (in quest). Invisible boost to all non-combat skill and invisible boost for all to hit chances, invisible also means if you have 70% to hit to target, but because of boost you have 90%, you'll see 70% near cursor, to not provide player with information about someone's presence in encounter.
Or same boost if there're no players in ~30 hexes, everywhere including towns. You can even craft something that requires 40% science if you have only 20%, if there're no players near workbrench, steal better from NPC, kill NPCs with +20% to hit chance, travel on WM alone a bit better because of +20% outdoorsman.
Also instead of "30 hexes" it can be "no other players in your FoV" or "You're not seen by other players", to have benefit for sneak skill, so until you're seen by someone, Loner trait will work, if you're in someone's FoV, you'll lose benefit. So you need to craft with low science skill when no one sees you at workbrench (or buy cave/base for it). Also it can affect gathering cooldown, so if you're in mine and no one sees you, you'll get less gathering CD on few %.
Btw penalty can be opposite thing, you can have party, but you'll lose -20% to all skills, may be also you'll be more likely to critically miss, and penalty to your AC, if you're seen by someone.
Also it can affect IN and CH (again it won't be shown in SPECIAL), +/- when no one sees you/someone sees you. So when no one in NCR bazaar, you can trade with Sha Enin with 1 CH! But if some guy spots you, Sha Enin will stop talking to you and start talk about mutants and that you need to see doctor because of your appearance.
Most likely "You're not seen by other players" is more suitable, because loners can actually work for some group or with friends, but they act better when no one observes it, of course their victims usually don't count as observers, but in FOnline it's impossible to know who's enemy and who's friend from system's points of view, so every creature with name above, except for GMs and devs, who sees Loner, should make him suffer from penalty of this trait, if Loner isn't seen by anyone, he'll get boost to all skills, +2 or +1 CH and IN for dialogue/other requirements check.

[wladimiiir]

I would rather have Night Person trait back

[gr1m055]

PvE boost if you're alone in encounter or instance (in quest). Invisible boost to all non-combat skill and invisible boost for all to hit chances, invisible also means if you have 70% to hit to target, but because of boost you have 90%, you'll see 70% near cursor, to not provide player with information about someone's presence in encounter.
Or same boost if there're no players in ~30 hexes, everywhere including towns. You can even craft something that requires 40% science if you have only 20%, if there're no players near workbrench, steal better from NPC, kill NPCs with +20% to hit chance, travel on WM alone a bit better because of +20% outdoorsman.
Also instead of "30 hexes" it can be "no other players in your FoV" or "You're not seen by other players", to have benefit for sneak skill, so until you're seen by someone, Loner trait will work, if you're in someone's FoV, you'll lose benefit. So you need to craft with low science skill when no one sees you at workbrench (or buy cave/base for it). Also it can affect gathering cooldown, so if you're in mine and no one sees you, you'll get less gathering CD on few %.
Btw penalty can be opposite thing, you can have party, but you'll lose -20% to all skills, may be also you'll be more likely to critically miss, and penalty to your AC, if you're seen by someone.
Also it can affect IN and CH (again it won't be shown in SPECIAL), +/- when no one sees you/someone sees you. So when no one in NCR bazaar, you can trade with Sha Enin with 1 CH! But if some guy spots you, Sha Enin will stop talking to you and start talk about mutants and that you need to see doctor because of your appearance.
Most likely "You're not seen by other players" is more suitable, because loners can actually work for some group or with friends, but they act better when no one observes it, of course their victims usually don't count as observers, but in FOnline it's impossible to know who's enemy and who's friend from system's points of view, so every creature with name above, except for GMs and devs, who sees Loner, should make him suffer from penalty of this trait, if Loner isn't seen by anyone, he'll get boost to all skills, +2 or +1 CH and IN for dialogue/other requirements check.

o0
That's just way too complicated. I think if anything this trait was meant to be a PvP ape perk so you could level a tad bit faster since most current PvP characters are 1 cha as is so there is no point in having the ability to taxi. That is the impression I got and my assumption, and my friend was still able to taxi me when I had this trait.

[DocAN.]

10% from 300 is 30 not 10
So MMR will give 330 exp.

[Swag]

Ravenous is on to something I think... but how about this? When you are a Loner in a group you suffer a penalty to skills? Because Ravenous's version is making this the best perk ever... there's no drawback. And yes, it is way too complicated. but you have to admit that this is a really cool idea.

[RavenousRat]

too complicated

too complicated

Ok, I'll make the same post again, but will use less letters. I hope it'll be less complicated for you then:

"If you're being seen by other player, and he's not GM/Dev, you'll get -X% to all your skill checks, or else +X%. It can also affect +/-X CH/IN checks."

That's all.

[Wallace]

For now Loner is useless as it is (to keep classic quote alive). To make it useful, we need to answer one important question - what solo player needs? Higher combat skill? Not much. Higher barter skill? Kinda. Higher "crafting" skills, to get rid of alts? Yes.
So in my not humble opinion Loner should work like a decent bonus for Science, Repair, Outdoorsman, maybe even Barter, maybe even ability to set a Ranger Camp without having a Ranger perk. I mean hell, you resign from having any in-game friends or gang mates, you can't join any group, you can't buy a base, you have to be self-sufficient Mad Max Wannabe wastelander, no alts required. That's real sacrifice in multiplayer game.

Yes Sir! Plus a way more (More, MOAR!) carry weight!
Or instead of bonus to cerain skills it'd be:

What about tagging 4 skills instead of 3. Maybe the 4th one could be only non combat skill.
But I really like the outdoorsman boost idea and dog idea too.

But still with additional carry weight... (since it's gonna be lower after wipe than can be now [3 strong back + packrat now is > than strongback and packrat after wipe] and carry weight is one of my favourite "abilities")

My other idea is to add an "animal friend" effect if possible

[greece crisis]

I think its like a role play trait or if you want to level faster but I have never seen 10% more experience ever be of any use. So for example a mutated molerat instead of 300exp you get 310 experience.

well it is 330:)

i prefer more pvp or pve bonus skills. loner need to be more tougher than normal player. so maby it will be extra 20%bonus to ++perk, ++toughes you can get +1/5% more resist, same with ++/+++brd +1-2damage more, ++/+++life giver +15-25 bonus hp...it would depent what you want to be good at, and/or 20% main skill. so loner could handle small pvp group or large pve encounter. i know it will be littler to much but with that solution solo player with loner perk can be hard like a rock...solo motherfucker...;]

[gr1m055]

Yes 330%, not 310% my fault.

Look RavenousRat I do not think its a bad idea it is a very unique idea but how would they implement something in game like this which wasn't meant to work that way? That is why I say its too complicated, we would never have a wipe and a new session if they spent their time on something like this.

[JovankaB]

well it is 330:)

i prefer more pvp or pve bonus skills. loner need to be more tougher than normal player. so maby it will be extra 20%bonus to ++perk, ++toughes you can get +1/5% more resist, same with ++/+++brd +1-2damage more, ++/+++life giver +15-25 bonus hp...it would depent what you want to be good at, and/or 20% main skill. so loner could handle small pvp group or large pve encounter. i know it will be littler to much but with that solution solo player with loner perk can be hard like a rock...solo motherfucker...;]

It's interesting idea and personally I was also thinking about something that can make you a bit "lone hero" also in PvP at the cost of not being able to get help of other players. But handling "small pvp groups" might be too much (even if small group would be 2 people). In that case there should be even more severe restrictions - like: loner can't be healed by other players, probably no mercenaries should be allowed, and shouldn't see names of other players over their heads (like avv mentioned).

But then it's getting too complicated and open to exploit.

[Sarakin]

Ok, I'll make the same post again, but will use less letters. I hope it'll be less complicated for you then:

"If you're being seen by other player, and he's not GM/Dev, you'll get -X% to all your skill checks, or else +X%. It can also affect +/-X CH/IN checks."

That's all.

Why cant you type like this instead of walls of texts. This is much more comprehensible. Skill maluses/bonuses sound ok.

[RavenousRat]

Why cant you type like this instead of walls of texts. This is much more comprehensible. Skill maluses/bonuses sound ok.

Because the idea of +/- X while on/out of FoV came to me in process, 1st I started with PvE instances only, then 30 hexes, etc.
Well next time I'll delete all my previous ideas and leave only the last one if you really need it so much.

[Lizard]

What would happen if you choose one or two Magnetic Personality perk levels on Loner? Would it allow a single follower in his party?