Other > Suggestions
Game economy, inflation
T-888:
--- Quote from: Lordus on December 11, 2011, 05:37:41 AM ---My idea: prices of every stuff traded by npc traders would slowly raise over the time (another multiplier into price formula).
I understand, that caps generating (spawning) ratio by NPC traders (simply, caps in their inventories) needs to be somehow related to inflation ratio.
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Why like this ? It doesn't make sense it's inflation out of thin air.
Player X trades random item at npc Y , random item gets more expensive because ...... ?
What makes sense each item of it's type gets more expensive or cheaper to buy/sell due to it's present amount. X item is 20 it costs less , Y item is 2 it cost is multiplied due to it's low stock + the cap ratio spawning would depend on the amount of total items. So you can't suck caps out of traders for ever , make items in his inventory decrease the price the longer they haven't been bought , one feature balances out the other.
I've read all your suggestion , good idea in general but i think wrong approach.
Fizzle:
um... this is a wasteland, If you have the supplies you can charge what ever you want for it!
Lordus:
--- Quote from: Stration on December 11, 2011, 03:01:46 PM ---It's not relevant to what I wrote in my post. My intention was merely to bring about that one source of infinite easy caps that you conveniently omitted to mention in your simulation of what would happen should 'permanent inflation' be introduced.
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Yes, there are a lot of ways how to get infinite caps. But sources of caps (stealing from npcs, looting Vs. encounters,..) would not counter inflation (in oposite to npc traders).
--- Quote from: Stration on December 11, 2011, 03:01:46 PM ---Dream on.
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Faction in mid session with that collected huge amount of caps would have two choices: spend their caps for lower amount of stuff (because of inflation), or trade with other players, who cannot easily obtain caps.
--- Quote from: Stration on December 11, 2011, 03:01:46 PM ---I've done hundreds of trades; my items/caps come chiefly from interacting with other players (be it bartering, looting, whatever). I don't see how implementing 'permanent inflation' (whatever that means) could ever affect this in any positive way.
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Most players gets mosts trades from interacting with NPC traders, not players. (If i omit "trades" among members of same faction). So your example dont represent the majority.
There exist inflation in the game economy. But is not permanent. Many players wants car, car price rises, less players wants car, car price is decrease. Permanent inflation would raise the price level continually, without any decrease.
--- Quote from: Stration on December 11, 2011, 03:01:46 PM ---What you propose is that we gradually lower the amount of new currency in circulation at the same time making the prices go higher.
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Yes, the amount of new currency will gradually lower, but total amount of currency will still raises (there would still be new caps in traders, TC, quests,..).
--- Quote from: Stration on December 11, 2011, 03:01:46 PM ---Since in player-to-player trades, the price of any given item is as a rule HIGHER than the base price of that item, it would effectively render players less able to afford to buy items from another player, therefore hindering player-to-player trades rather than facilitating them.
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You forget one thing, my friend. 2238 is not growing economy. A lot of player disapears after start of session, the number of players in mid session decrease, but the amount of caps still raises. There is not any economical reason, why players (gangs) with bases, cars, PvP or PvE stuff and milions of caps needs to trade with each other. Only newbies wants to trade with players, but it is more begging than trading (because longer playing players realy dont need anything from newbies).
If value of gangs caps savings will decrease, but on opposite, if it would be more harder for other players to get caps, they will be economicaly forced to cooperate (trade).
Stration:
--- Quote from: Lordus on December 11, 2011, 04:02:48 PM ---Yes, there are a lot of ways how to get infinite caps. But sources of caps (stealing from npcs, looting Vs. encounters,..) would not counter inflation (in oposite to npc traders).
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I never said they would. If anything, more and more caps = greater and greater inflation rate, but I don't see how that relates to what I wrote before.
--- Quote from: Lordus on December 11, 2011, 04:02:48 PM ---Faction in mid session with that collected huge amount of caps would have two choices: spend their caps for lower amount of stuff (because of inflation), or trade with other players, who cannot easily obtain caps.
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So you're suggesting that a guy who knows how to obtain items that a major faction might be willing to buy from him at the same time has no idea how to get caps? Really?
--- Quote from: Lordus on December 11, 2011, 04:02:48 PM ---Most players gets mosts trades from interacting with NPC traders, not players. (If i omit "trades" among members of same faction). So your example dont represent the majority.
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Just because you don't trade with players from outside your faction doesn't mean nobody else does.
--- Quote from: Lordus on December 11, 2011, 04:02:48 PM ---There exist inflation in the game economy. But is not permanent. Many players wants car, car price rises, less players wants car, car price is decrease. Permanent inflation would raise the price level continually, without any decrease.
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And that would be good?
--- Quote from: Lordus on December 11, 2011, 04:02:48 PM ---Yes, the amount of new currency will gradually lower, but total amount of currency will still raises (there would still be new caps in traders, TC, quests,..).
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I'm sorry to say this, but you have no clue how money works. Also, TC money is to be gone after the next wipe, and these meager few caps that quests give you are not even worth mentioning.
--- Quote from: Lordus on December 11, 2011, 04:02:48 PM ---You forget one thing, my friend. 2238 is not growing economy. A lot of player disapears after start of session, the number of players in mid session decrease, but the amount of caps still raises. There is not any economical reason, why players (gangs) with bases, cars, PvP or PvE stuff and milions of caps needs to trade with each other. Only newbies wants to trade with players, but it is more begging than trading (because longer playing players realy dont need anything from newbies). If value of gangs caps savings will decrease, but on opposite, if it would be more harder for other players to get caps, they will be economicaly forced to cooperate (trade).
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In short: "adjust the game economy so that my faction can profit." The answer is no, but nice try.
Lordus:
--- Quote from: Stration on December 11, 2011, 05:18:14 PM ---I never said they would. If anything, more and more caps = greater and greater inflation rate, but I don't see how that relates to what I wrote before.
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The total amount of caps in game does not affect the price of stuff of NPC traders in 2238. This is how it works. => You cannot buy best stuff, because it is always sold out. My suggestion goes counter this fact, but inflation will be created generaly.
--- Quote from: Stration on December 11, 2011, 05:18:14 PM ---So you're suggesting that a guy who knows how to obtain items that a major faction might be willing to buy from him at the same time has no idea how to get caps? Really?
--- End quote ---
Players know how to get caps. Players will know, how to get caps from players, because of lack of caps of NPC traders in midsession and later. Just go to NCR and trade with caps holders. Or spend a lot of time to checking all npc traders, risk death because of PKs.. Best players find best way. Like before.
--- Quote from: Stration on December 11, 2011, 05:18:14 PM ---Just because you don't trade with players from outside your faction doesn't mean nobody else does.
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Dont be agressive. Tell me, what is the ratio between player vs. NPC trade and player vs. player trade? 100:1? 1000:1?
--- Quote from: Stration on December 11, 2011, 05:18:14 PM ---And that would be good? (Inflation)
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I posted reasons why it would be good in my first topic. In general => more activities of players to preserve value => more players interaction => more populated locations!
--- Quote from: Stration on December 11, 2011, 05:18:14 PM --- I'm sorry to say this, but you have no clue how money works.
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I am sorry, but you forget that we are talking about online game currency mechanics, not about free market environment. This currently artifical created economy environment of 2238 is more similar to central planned economy with fixed prices than to outside world.
--- Quote from: Stration on December 11, 2011, 05:18:14 PM ---Also, TC money is to be gone after the next wipe, and these meager few caps that quests give you are not even worth mentioning.
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So you can still get zilion of caps by trading a huge amount of useless crap.
--- Quote from: Stration on December 11, 2011, 05:18:14 PM ---In short: "adjust the game economy so that my faction can profit." The answer is no, but nice try.
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Every faction has everything after few weeks or months. This would not change (because of slow rate of inflation). But after that time, there is no need for rich players to trade with others. And basic players are useless for them, only meat for guns. My idea could change this.
--- Quote from: T-888 on December 11, 2011, 03:30:40 PM ---Why like this ? It doesn't make sense it's inflation out of thin air. Player X trades random item at npc Y , random item gets more expensive because ...... ?
--- End quote ---
Inflation made by infinite source of every stuff.
--- Quote from: T-888 on December 11, 2011, 03:30:40 PM ---What makes sense each item of it's type gets more expensive or cheaper to buy/sell due to it's present amount. X item is 20 it costs less , Y item is 2 it cost is multiplied due to it's low stock + the cap ratio spawning would depend on the amount of total items. So you can't suck caps out of traders for ever , make items in his inventory decrease the price the longer they haven't been bought , one feature balances out the other.
--- End quote ---
I think that your idea is classic free market idea. But problem is, that 2238 has infinite sources of stuff that could totaly ruin (lower) the prices of some stuff. Also barter skill affects the final prices of stuff, so it has a very big potential to be abusable, so it would need much time and sources to test it.
Also my idea aims to some purpuses and it could be generaly relatively easily regulated (by changing inflation ratio, reimplementing bank interrests, changing money spawning ratio,...), your idea could work in 2/3 of Npc traders, but rest could be "caps generators".
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