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[gr1m099]

To start off I made this thread to discuss pk and anti-pk and for now I well not discuss my opinion on it as for anybody that knows or has talked to me about the subject already knows my opinion on anti-pk and pk.

Player Killer, yes the player killer or known as PK. And anti-player killer or known as anti-pk. Probably the best 2 known groups in the game. People generally associate these two terms into people's play style.

The Pker, the guy who likes to kill random people for various reasons. Some reasons include bordem, because he wasn't tagged green, or because its funny to annoy people.

The Anti-PKer, hates getting killed by random people in encounters, at the mines or when entering an unguarded town. Generally doesn't shoot random players on sight and doesn't find any humor what so ever in killing other players.

But why has it come down to this classifying players into 2 categories. Is it that we are taught good and evil, law vs outlaw. Why is it in our human nature to think of things in terms of 2, does player killing really reflect one moral judgement into right and wrong? Is anti-pk truly right and pk evil and wrong?  Why is that people generally think like this when it come to this game?

[Johnnybravo]

Yes it is really that simple, translated to live world. However you don't have to feel shame for playing evil character in roleplaying game. The game have very few rules so there is no moral problem in killing players even just for fun.

What would be wrong if somebody was "PK" IRL. (NPCs are nearly viewed as sentient beings, so they are something beneath animals or whatever, even though they might be represented as humanoids or humans in game)

[Wind_Drift]

It seems that being killed by another player for no discernible reason can be the most infuriating occurrence in the game.  The delineation between the two groups probably evolved naturally due to Player Killing eliciting such a strong reaction from those who have "suffered" it.

When unfriendly NPC's or other critters attack you on sight it's easy to shrug it off, they have no choice in the matter. It's how the game was coded.  However when another player attacks you, it's apparent that it was a conscious decision made by the person controlling their character.  Some players can shrug it off, others can't.  It feels personal to them, for understandable reasons.  I wouldn't be upset at a tree limb if it fell on my head, but I would be fucking pissed if my wife hit me in the face with a baseball bat without provocation.  There is obviously transference from real life into the game for some players.

I think where the mindset really differs between PK and APK is how the act is viewed.  Raiders, Highwaymen, Floaters, and other critters are simply game obstacles to present the player with a challenge to overcome in an encounter.  I tend to view PK's (myself included) as an extension of that role, whereas those of the APK mindset obviously don't see it that way.  I've had discussions with adamantly APK players who have told me that they feel PK's are terrible people in real life as well, and their play style is only a reflection of that. 

I don't feel that either group is wrong, it's just a different point of view.  At the end of the day, it gives each of us purpose and drives gameplay forward. 

I know I've painted with a fairly broad brush there, but I do understand that each player is different. We all have different motivations and ideas about the game, and no two players are the same.  Some are very extreme one way or the other, while some are more middle of the road.  In these conversations, it is usually those on the extreme ends of the spectrum that are made example of, so it's the easiest context to discuss it in.  I'm not attempting to pigeonhole people firmly into anything.

That being said, I really can only speak for myself with any real validity. The above is all opinion based on observation, and in many cases is totally inaccurate. 

[avv]

Pk is the true powergaming method. It's easier, safer and more profitable to shoot every unknown player. You get more loot and die less often. 
Antipk is basically about putting your ideologies ahead of the gameplay benefit. It's harder but more rewarding in terms of enjoyment.

Just a reminder: Antipk groups have people inside them who have a mindset that would suit pk group better but because all their contacts are inside antipk gangs, he can't just leave the team. The others surely know this but because it's just a game, they won't kick him out if he's okay as a person and nice to hang out with. I'm sure pk groups have people too who would suit antipk team better but they have the same problem. 

[gr1m099]

I would just like to add, from my experience, that people who are labeled PK generally do it because they find it funny to annoy other people in the game. People in the PK spectrum are actually normal people in real lifes who have everyday jobs or go to school. People make more of out pkers than what they really are. Its a harsh world its survival, and PKers add that the survival theme.

I know I said I wouldn't post my opinion but I feel that I want to now. I think its all bull shit, I think its more about you group up with a faction and kill other faction members which is still PKing. I mean from my experience if I'm on alt that is known to anti-pk factions, and they know its me they well kill me because they know I am with an enemy faction, and usually works the other way around. I think anti-pk and pk is the same thing, they both kill players and I think the term PvP player is a better term.

The game is more so if you are not a friend in my faction or an ally of my faction I'm going to shoot you. In this case which is why I would recommend a solo player to find a faction as soon as possible and I recommend new players to join up with the noob helper factions and then decide when they are ready for PvP to pick a faction.

You know what my experience with PKers was when I first started this game, I started to make a list of everybody who wronged me, and I used to post in IRC phony bounties and not pay people because I thought it would be funny to have a bunch of people go after somebody. From this experience I met a guy on IRC who got me into PvP and all the people who PK me I ended up meeting them and being friends with them. After meeting them I ended up having a lot of fun playing with them and doing pvp action with them. But then shit happened but that's whole other story.

So for the most part the people who PK generally do it for LOlz or find it funny and get a good laugh. Its like a practical joker, the person who gets pranked its not funny to but the guy pulling the prank finds it hilarious.

Also I wanted to post this video for your viewing pleasure which reminds me of the argument of PK vs Anti-PK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aaubVlhNK4&feature=related

[runboy93]

Good example.

I'm APK+PK (Sometimes I don't kill players when I help them, but sometimes I can't just resist to kill bluesuits)
I don't care what stuff they got I just leave them be.
You can always find that stuff what mostly bluesuits have, but win is thing that matters on wasteland!

[avv]

I know I said I wouldn't post my opinion but I feel that I want to now. I think its all bull shit, I think its more about you group up with a faction and kill other faction members which is still PKing. I mean from my experience if I'm on alt that is known to anti-pk factions, and they know its me they well kill me because they know I am with an enemy faction, and usually works the other way around.

I know what you mean but there's a reason why your alt gets shot. It doesn't matter what your intentions are at the moment you meet those guys but what you have done previously. If you have done bad things from their opinion, you're their enemy and enemies must be shot.

[A concerned wastelander]

Playing both APK and PK, I know that both are needed. Its important to make a distinction between FREE PK and PK.

-FREE PK is killing players while being out of character (OOC), you know, players that go over corpses and say: You suck at this game, thanks for your stuff... We could call it PK-GRIEFING, as the perpetrator obtain is joy from dominating less experimented or *determined* players.
 
-PK only means you kill a *innocent* player. The game is made so that it can happen, this game is not only about PVE, I know I woudnt play this game if it was. Depending on the situation, PKing someone can be done with style and can even be fun for the victim!

-ANTI-PK means not shooting first unless you have a good roleplay reason to do so (i didnt like is face is no good reason). It also means that you will hunt down any PK you can find and handle.

-PASSIVE ANTI-PK means you dont hunt pkers, you dont attack anyone unless they attack you, most of the time you are not even armed! You are some kind of saint (and maybe a bit out of character, since its hard to believe such a person would survive in a world like fallout).

Its important to understand that two ANTI-PK factions can be at war with each other, roleplay speaking. ANTI-PKers of the server are far from being united right now (a good thing for balance).

[Michaelh139]

Its important to understand that two ANTI-PK factions can be at war with each other, roleplay speaking. ANTI-PKers of the server are far from being united right now (a good thing for balance).

Ehhhh.....  I'm gonna leave that alone.



There is no right or wrong, really.  I myself have trouble understanding that concept when I feel "wronged" but I have tried adamantly to weld that to my brain.  It just is.  Do what you want.  People want to live with police state others want anarchy.  Neither one is right or wrong, they are simply different, and that causes conflict between the two groups, so they duke it out and "win" however they can.  The majority of humans like conflict, an obstacle to cross, a challenge, and generally when there isn't a challenge that fits or is beyond their ability, they MAKE challenges, they MAKE conflict, so that they may do so.  Video games, these "Synthetic challenges" are a perfect example of this human drive for measuring their competency, that they make these huge intricate how i called "mazes" or so to see so.

That's all PK and Anti-Pk is.  A synthetic conflict created by humans in order to have a goal/challenge to overcome, it just happened to divide people up so that they might fight each other for their cause, just like so many other instances in human history.

[avv]

There is no right or wrong, really.

There isn't but there's reputation and consequences. If one kills everyone he doesn't know, he will be a man with few friends but many enemies.

[gr1m099]

I know what you mean but there's a reason why your alt gets shot. It doesn't matter what your intentions are at the moment you meet those guys but what you have done previously. If you have done bad things from their opinion, you're their enemy and enemies must be shot.

Not really the point I was making, maybe I should eleborate my point. What I was trying to say that if I go on an alt that lets say an enemy anti-pk faction knows about they well shoot it even if its a level 6 blue suit, which is how every faction in the game acts if you are in different faction that isn't ally all factions well shoot that character. And that's what the game is more about than simplistic thinking of good vs evil and associate anti-pk as good and pk as evil. The game is shade of grey there is no good and evil, its a game where groups of players fight each other and make alliances. I know there are people who play it for PvE and do not partake in PvP but anti-pk and pk is a PvP term.

Also in response to this quote, this is why I do not like anti-pk groups, who are you guys to say I'm not allowed to mine and enjoy the game because I shot a blue suit or pk somebody in an encounter, its a free game people are allowed to do so. I think its idiotic to try to start a group to punish people for their actions, which is why I did not want to sate my opinion on this because I generally do not like anti-pk factions for this reason, and this well probably turn into d into a faction flame war. I generally do not think its right to blacklist people because they kill other players in encounters or at mines.

But I think when new players start this game they take getting killed personally, in reality the PKer is probably just some guy who is bored looking for some PvP action.

Its the wasteland its harsh learn to defend yourself, this is fallout after all you have to accept that there well always be people who prey on the weak, when you are weak and low level you have to accept the fact that there are people out there who well kill you.

Generally when people think of anti-pk they think they are some sort of saviors who go out and hunt people who kill noobs and other players, but they are just another PvP faction who do town control, and group to do PvP. Once you see it from this view point its just another player vs player group nothing more.

There isn't but there's reputation and consequences. If one kills everyone he doesn't know, he will be a man with few friends but many enemies.

And walking around role playing "authority" and telling people to go do forced labor, and to make them role play firing squad sure wins people over.

[A concerned wastelander]

Generally when people think of anti-pk they think they are some sort of saviors who go out and hunt people who kill noobs and other players, but they are just another PvP faction who do town control, and group to do PvP. Once you see it from this view point its just another player vs player group nothing more.

Indeed. Being ANTI-PK doesnt mean your Jesus.

[Brick]

That's all PK and Anti-Pk is.  A synthetic conflict created by humans in order to have a goal/challenge to overcome, it just happened to divide people up so that they might fight each other for their cause, just like so many other instances in human history.

I have to disagree that it a synthetic conflict. I play this game as I play every game, as the good guy. For example I have never completed any fallout game as a 'bad/evil' person, and I consider my playstyle to represent the kind of person that I am.

When I first began playing, I wouldn't even shoot at non-aggressive npc's as I considered this a bad thing to do. However it became a needed procedure to attain items to keep up with the pvp that I later joined (for example only one npc has lsw's and they are non-aggressive). This is something I wish to change for the next season.

...However when another player attacks you, it's apparent that it was a conscious decision made by the person controlling their character...

...I tend to view PK's (myself included) as an extension of that role, whereas those of the APK mindset obviously don't see it that way.  I've had discussions with adamantly APK players who have told me that they feel PK's are terrible people in real life as well, and their play style is only a reflection of that...

It would be nice if 'PKs' were just an extension of this role, however in my gaming experience, I have found it a rare sight. Just by itself, 'PKs' are good for the server. They present a challenge within the game that doesn't already exist, and provides the 'good' players with an 'evil' nemesis to attempt to destroy, and vice versa.

However, from what I have seen, the majority of 'PKs' are not like this. Instead I am hit with a barrage of insults and childlike behavior that makes the game unenjoyable for most, and transfers a stereotype onto the others.

The game have very few rules so there is no moral problem in killing players even just for fun.

I disagree. While you may not see a moral problem, others do. Many players would not shoot a new player who has been collecting junk/wood for the past few hours because they would feel guilty about doing so.

[Johnny Nuclear]

Generally when people think of anti-pk they think they are some sort of saviors who go out and hunt people who kill noobs and other players, but they are just another PvP faction who do town control, and group to do PvP. Once you see it from this view point its just another player vs player group nothing more.

.....group, which some players like to see, beacuse they can feel safe for a while..... used to be....

[Shonsu]

Also in response to this quote, this is why I do not like anti-pk groups, who are you guys to say I'm not allowed to mine and enjoy the game because I shot a blue suit or pk somebody in an encounter, its a free game people are allowed to do so. I think its idiotic to try to start a group to punish people for their actions, which is why I did not want to sate my opinion on this because I generally do not like anti-pk factions for this reason, and this well probably turn into d into a faction flame war. I generally do not think its right to blacklist people because they kill other players in encounters or at mines.

Ok... so it's ok if you kill random people you've never met before but it's not ok for someone to attackk you for that?  I really don't see your logic.