Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[avv]

Support perks were supposed to grant a pvp build more versatility, so that it would be possible to merge a pvp build and crafter into one. However, no pvp build will ever spend any points in repair, outdoorsman or science because they don't provide any boost in combat. Now that fighting perks require high gunskill, not many points can be afforded for FA and doc either. So a typical pvp build's skill composition will look like this: 85% skillpoints into gunskill, 15% to doc.

In addition, now that ac can be really high it might be that we end up in a situation where players put absolutely all skillpoints into weaponskill to maximize the hitchance. In tc many fights are fought over maxrange so high AC will have an impact.

So the outcome is that almost all support perks end up to crafter alts because of skill requirements. The skill requirements themselves aren't that bad but the issue are the skills themselves: no bonus in combat.

Ways to fix:
- non-combat skills unlock some kickass combat perks

Here's some examples:

Reverse-Engineer
100 repair
Your knowledge of armors helps you to hit their weakpoints and cause more damage.
Your attacks deteriorate enemy armors 10 times faster.
Attacks ignore enemy's armor-related ac.

Ballistics Expert
100 science
You are good at calculating long range bullet trajectories
+60 to hit chance with single shot weapons when shooting over 25 hex.

Self-Experimentalist
120 science
Personal scientific experiences on drugs have provided you the knowledge of most sufficient drug doses.
Drugs are simply more effective:
- Buffout no longer takes away 1AGI
- Psycho only takes away one PER
- Jet only reduces one strength

Master Tracker
100 outdoorsman
You detect sneakers 10 hexes further and they can't resneak if they are within 15 hex away, even if behind a wall.

These perks are more kickass than average levelling perks because you have to invest points into non-combat skill. 80 points in science is 80 points away from gunskill, so it has to pay off by giving a good combat perk.

Then we got speech, barter, lockpick, traps, steal and gambling which are so off-combat skills that even thinking of any combat related for them is hard.

[T-888]

Too much , we need to figure out and balance the existing perks. If you will add tons more " ultra-pwn perks " it won't help to balance.

I don't think devs will find time to implement all this till wipe or even after it , because of existing problems and tons of bugs.

btw there are a lot of new perks and the level cap ain't raised , there is hardly space for the existing one. I think pvp-crafters shouldn't be the concern now but how to solve the problem luck being another dump stat....

[avv]

Too much , we need to figure out and balance the existing perks. If you will add tons more " ultra-pwn perks " it won't help to balance.

Won't help to balance for sure, it adds more to the mix. However the point here was to encourage taking those non-combat skills. The perks are actually pretty balanced compared to the tradeoff.

Take Ballistics Expert for instance: +60 hitchance on long range and requires 100 science. It's about 70 points in science, if untagged, even less if tagged. Good investment because at higher levels of gunskills it demands very high skillpoint investments to get more hit chance.

What we're doing now is balancing our pvp builds for pvp purposes. However in my understanding one element of this update was to try to merge pvp builds with crafters.

[T-888]

What we're doing now is balancing our pvp builds for pvp purposes. However in my understanding one element of this update was to try to merge pvp builds with crafters.

It would be nice for someone to verify the bold part Some of these support perks look somewhat fine , some nice utilities. Only if they are " support perks " otherwise i don't give green light.

Self-Experimentalist - should be doc 120% since doc is related to drugs.

Reverse-Engineer - maybe would be easier to make it ignore some portion of DR ... since it helps you to find " weak spots "

Ballistics Expert - well every sniper build would take this , they would sacrifice some skill points to get science , to balance the loss of the SG skill. In the end they can craft something , good.

Master Tracker - Kick ass support perk.

As i said , i don't believe devs will do something about this right now.... :/ we need to clone developers ....

barter-specialist - extensive merchanting has given you +30 damage with rocket launcher.

yea i know makes sense....

[Overdose]

These are good, but they seem a tiny bit over powered to me.

Also not to be annoying or anything but shouldn't this be placed in suggestions?

[The DUDE]

gambling skill could have a perk that was luck based maybe.

The Gambler= A perk to give a 50% chance to add + or _ % to crit chance/table. Kind of like jinx affect only it can be positive or negative skill effect.


speech/charisma could grant some perk that gives a TEAM bonus

Team Player=  +% to hit/ac/DR. % could be affected by amount of skill points/charisma

[LagMaster]

Leader
100 speech
you know how to lead a team, you gain +5% movement on WM and everyone who tags you and that is in your sight gain a +10% hit chance and a +10 AC.

Weapon Breaker
req: lockpick 100
you know how to lock and unlock locks and weapons, giving you a chance to distroy weapons if you do an aimed shot in hands

Undying rage
req: speech 150, ODM 100
You are a tireless speecher.If you shout out loud RAAAA you gain 2 seconds for all fatal hits to leave you with 1 HP

[Sarakin]

Avv is totally right in this and what we can do is either:
a) Do what avv has suggested - would be very time consuming, but adds more variety and fixes the problem
b) Every X levels, every char can take one-time quest that raises his non.combat skills, f.e. at lvl 12, you can pick 50 to lockpick or science or repair and so on and then at 21, you can choose another X support perk that boots your non-combat skills more - easy to implement
c) Leave it as it is - no change in char usage at all, fighters will be fighters, crafters will be crafters

[Lordus]

In addition, now that ac can be really high it might be that we end up in a situation where players put absolutely all skillpoints into weaponskill to maximize the hitchance. In tc many fights are fought over maxrange so high AC will have an impact.

 AC will affect only running players.  It will not be ultimate defense ability, so majority of PvP players will dont need to invest many skillpoint into combat skills.

 Avv suggested perks that dont make any sense in real life comparsion.

 How ability, that allows you to find best patch, recognize footprint of critters, can give you better chance to spot enemy few meters near you? How even intelligent human can reduce effect of drug?  Also balistic expert. If you learn how to use rifle, that knowledge is expressed in small gun skill. If i will try to make new perks using your aproach, i can imagine "More critical perk" related to gambling.. etc. Also possibility to reload energy weapons will need 200 skill in science.. because manipulation with radioactive material is VERY dangerous.

----------------
 I think that there is a way how to solve this problem.

 1) Implement skill points books, that will allow you permanently raise skills to level 100 (?). Make of that semi accessible goods. (Source: caves, chests, caravan traders,..). So you can raise your combat skills and separately your non combat skills.


=> PvP players, that needs quickly PvP char will always create both, PvP and crafter, trader. But after they would collect enough books, they can invest them to their PvP chars and their need of using crafters will gone.

=> no pvp players will find value of books too

 2) problem with charisma. Every pvp char (except merc leaders) will create CH 1 builds. So again. One char for pvp, another for craf/trade/quests.

 So solution: add semi and rare items: cloth (leather jacket), eyeglasses, even weapons (Little Jesus Knife, Dog Gizmo pistol), jewels, that will add charisma to its holder.

 So pvp players would first create their own powerbuild, then they will try to get additional perks. To get them, they will need charisma.. To get charisma, they will need special items. So they will also be able to get those secondary perks.

 In comparsion with non PvP players, their patch for quests will be more risky, because they can lost their items, and vice versa, non pvp builds will have this patch quicker, but that will solve that problem.

[Solar]

I think we will try it out first. I think you should be able to get quite a few with even limited investment in secondary skills (especially when tagged).

 

[Xaern]

Undying voice: You're so determined to win an argument that not even bullets will stop you! You can now withstand a single attack every 15 minutes that would normally kill you, with one HP to spare!

Requirements: 200 Speech

++==++

Gun Control: You don't just let people wave guns around in your face, you take control! While unarmed or using a melee weapon, damage from firearms at close range is significantly reduced the closer you are to your opponent!

Requirements: 200 Unarmed

Just some ideas that popped out of my noggin.

[LagMaster]

Gun Control: You don't just let people wave guns around in your face, you take control! While unarmed or using a melee weapon, damage from firearms at close range is significantly reduced the closer you are to your opponent!

Requirements: 200 Unarmed

is't that "In your face"?

[Wallace]

That is truth that currently support perk won't be picked by minmaxed PvP build coz currently only 1 have any use in combat, which is "Dead man walking" (i wouldn'tinclude "Boneyard Guard" coz you need like 6 AG for being able to take it and that means the build for 95% isn't minmaxed)

Also support perks are a big help for crafter alts however that also means that regular perks will be of no use for crafters so PvP will remain PvP and crafters are forced to become more PvP

Currently when i was making my crafter alts i had like 5-7 perk choices to be of use (dependable on skilled or it's lack; pack rat, 3x strong back, 3x educated, mr.fixit, medic)

After wipe only only 2 regular perks will be of use: pack rat and strong back... and then what? Why i need to pick 4-6 more combat perks if i want to play non-combat crafter build? I can no longer dedicate completely to crafting 

[Solar]

Congratulations, you're the first person to complain about too much freedom.

I knew it'd happen, as there's always someone to complain about everything.

[Slaver Snipe]

Really Wallace? You could choose to not pick perks if you believe that only 2 will be of use, then again you could get things that would...i don't know make you harder to kill?  Why would you complain about something where you can have a crafter who is pretty good at combat?