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[Reiniat]

This is just a simple question to de devs:
Is there a posibility that this game work without have to recurre to random (or % chance) stuff?

I clarify:
-still the x% of chance to hit an enemy, including limbs.
-still the x% chance to critically fail
-bullets always make the same damage, not a random from x to x.
-no critical hit rolls, all limb shots are critical hits: damage and effects are based on Luck, more luck more damage.
-crippling and knocking based on damage taken independently by each limb, a limb has xHP when it drops to zero, the limb gets crippled
-bursts always make the same damage at certain hex, depending obviously of skill, ST penalty, PER, etc, etc

Im not suggesting the stuff of above, is just an example of how it could work.

[Atom]

If you're merely asking if such stuff is possible to do, then yes. The combat is (almost) entirely scripted so de-randomizing parts of it is not a problem.

[Reiniat]

another question:
Are you thinking about make that?
because the actual combat system is so odd, you make an eyeshot and blind, bypass, triple damage, etc. but you cant say "oh yes im a good player, did you see that?" because in the end its only matter of posibilityes, not the player real-skills. with the time click and wait for what happens becomes unsatisfactory.

Also, i've heard that if you shot an enemy to the eyes and he is backwards then there is zero chance to hit.
is thee a way to implement this in a more important way?
i mean something like burst people from the sites makes less damage, shot people in the groin only works if he is in front of you, there are more chances to cripple arms or legs if you shot to the enemy sides.
Im not talking about clic in certain part of the enemy body, im talking about his position respect to the position of the shooter

PD: thx for answer fast

[RavenousRat]

because the actual combat system is so odd, you make an eyeshot and blind, bypass, triple damage, etc. but you cant say "oh yes im a good player, did you see that?" because in the end its only matter of posibilityes, not the player real-skills. with the time click and wait for what happens becomes unsatisfactory.

This is RPG, not shooter. Constant PvP and strange 1 CH powerbuilds are common because of lack of content.

Also who cares about randomness, not only you have random possibilities, your enemy has it too, may be he's better than you, but was less lucky all that time, but now it's his turn to be lucky.
And in the end, 95% will be really ~95000 hits from 100000 hits. What means 95% to hit is equal to constant 95% of 100% damage with 100% possibility.

[Johnnybravo]

I'm designing that kind of game, where no random is allowed at all, yet still want to retain all the functions.
Got pretty much everything with exception to steal.

Did not know people would be really interested though :d.

[RavenousRat]

Got pretty much everything with exception to steal.

Offtop: make steal% affect max possible weight+number of items avaible to steal -steal% skill of victim. ;p

[Bartosz]

I'm designing that kind of game, where no random is allowed at all, yet still want to retain all the functions.
Got pretty much everything with exception to steal.

Did not know people would be really interested though :d.

Well, it would be definitely interesting to have your rules translated into test server for people to check this out.

[avv]

This is RPG, not shooter.

Percentages and skillpoints don't make rpg, what you do and can do ingame makes it. You can roleplay even in counter strike if you want. What works in singleplayer doesn't necessarily work in multiplayer. In fallout singleplayer crits were funny because the player character used them against enemies and got funny results. In fonline we players are in the receiving end and it's not very funny anymore.

Constant PvP and strange 1 CH powerbuilds are common because of lack of content.

No matter how deep and interesting quests you make, pvp builds will be minmaxed because fighting other players and winning is very important to pvp minded people. In fact, no matter what kind of content there is the pvp minded people would just ignore it and do pvp instead.

Also who cares about randomness, not only you have random possibilities, your enemy has it too, may be he's better than you, but was less lucky all that time, but now it's his turn to be lucky.

Players don't like it when unexpected random things happen. You make a plan, execute it but it is ruined by random factor which is a lucky crit in this case.

[Surf]

All those PnP/RPG players must, by your logic, be having eternal torment playing with dices, hm? 
An RPG with all the randomness and dice throwing taken out is nothing more than some action adventure, or a 2d shooter.

[RavenousRat]

Players don't like it when unexpected random things happen. You make a plan, execute it but it is ruined by random factor which is a lucky crit in this case.

Then this game isn't for them, what a problem. If they want to play 2D strategy shooter, let them play something else. And again, if you planned something and random factor ruined your plans, it means that the same can happen to your enemy, so total there's no difference at all, it only adds unexpected events and gives chance to weaker be better than stronger. Even in life planned things not always going as they supposed to.

Percentages and skillpoints don't make rpg, what you do and can do ingame makes it. You can roleplay even in counter strike if you want. What works in singleplayer doesn't necessarily work in multiplayer. In fallout singleplayer crits were funny because the player character used them against enemies and got funny results. In fonline we players are in the receiving end and it's not very funny anymore.

And what do you want? Boring constant damage? The damage only needs to be nerfed a bit, just to make players live a bit longer, but it doesn't require constant numbers. Just return all 10mm - laser pistol and other low tier weapons to thier original low damage, and lower higher weapon damage instead, make armor really protect not only for style and nerf crits effects like KO and instakill that instantly makes player out of game. There shouldn't be possibilities to kill player in 1 second, exclude cases when 10 people shooting him at the same time. But constant damage or other possibilities has nothing to do with it, if you want not to die from crits fast.
And this is RPG, your characters is in game, not you, he might miss, hit non vital part of body, he's human, not bot, you can't be sure for 100% in all your actions.

[Marko69]

All those PnP/RPG players must, by your logic, be having eternal torment playing with dices, hm? 
An RPG with all the randomness and dice throwing taken out is nothing more than some action adventure, or a 2d shooter.

Gambling, that's what brings the thrill! Just that computer calculated chances are becoming obvious when repeating something in single player. It works ok for multiplayer if you ask me, currently criticals are only used for knocking down enemy so others can finish him off.

[avv]

All those PnP/RPG players must, by your logic, be having eternal torment playing with dices, hm? 
An RPG with all the randomness and dice throwing taken out is nothing more than some action adventure, or a 2d shooter.

There's good and bad randomness. Good randomness is when you randomly encounter a treasure while walking in the desert, or randomly craft a little better equipment than you expected. Random nice surprises are good.

Then there's bad randomness which basically goes like this: "you were critically hit in the head for 120 damage, had your armor bypassed and were knocked out for -20 ap"

Then this game isn't for them, what a problem. If they want to play 2D strategy shooter, let them play something else.

So all our pvp players leave this game. Who's gonna do pvp then?

And again, if you planned something and random factor ruined your plans, it means that the same can happen to your enemy, so total there's no difference at all, it only adds unexpected events and gives chance to weaker be better than stronger.

It doesn't matter that the enemy is subjected under same conditions. He neither deserves too good or too bad luck. Unexpected events aren't wanted in pvp, not the kinds crits produce. It wouldn't matter if crits did randomly either 30 or 50 damage, but the scale of randomness is so massive that you can do either 10 damage or 120 damage and KO. I could actually say that people hate kos, cripples and knockdowns more than random damage.
And what comes to weaker vs strong, that only exists in random encounters and in situations where players don't want to fight. In pvp you choose what you risk because the choice to fight is yours. Nobody forces you to go tc or new reno.

And what do you want? Boring constant damage? The damage only needs to be nerfed a bit, just to make players live a bit longer, but it doesn't require constant numbers. Just return all 10mm - laser pistol and other low tier weapons to thier original low damage, and lower higher weapon damage instead, make armor really protect not only for style and nerf crits effects like KO and instakill that instantly makes player out of game. There shouldn't be possibilities to kill player in 1 second, exclude cases when 10 people shooting him at the same time. But constant damage or other possibilities has nothing to do with it, if you want not to die from crits fast.

Sounds reasonable. Crits need more reliablity and less over and under the top effects. The reason they are so strong in first place is because chosen one had to defeat groups of enemies alone. We don't play as chosen one.
What comes to boring constant damage, it's good because it encourages focus fire teamwork. Just needs to be made so that you can deal more damage than heal. Currently when 2 bg tanks fight they can't kill each other if both have enough superstims. 

And this is RPG, your characters is in game, not you, he might miss, hit non vital part of body, he's human, not bot, you can't be sure for 100% in all your actions.

Okay, let's implement more rpg elements then. My character just succesfully convinced your char to lead me in his base and hand out all his stuff. Dice rolls are great.

[Bartosz]

All those PnP/RPG players must, by your logic, be having eternal torment playing with dices, hm? 

You can't deny they don't suffer from time to time:)

[RavenousRat]

Okay, let's implement more rpg elements then. My character just succesfully convinced your char to lead me in his base and hand out all his stuff. Dice rolls are great.

Yeah, your speech skill roll against victim's speech skill roll to become invisible in party list, than more rolls you're doing at the same day, than less you to succeed! That's how RPGs should work from character point of view, not:
A: "I can upgrade your tent to have more space if you'll bring me there!"
B: "Okay, tag me, me wants upgraded tent with many room!"
B: "Hey, why are you looting my items?"
A: "I'm making more empty space!"
Because it'll be the same as if you need to click needed bodypart on player's model to hit it, not choose on special created window for example. Of course RT mode kills alot at RPG, as player plays more role than needed in it, character with lower sequence can shoot you 1st, only because player has better reaction or internet connection, what isn't right in RPG.

[Surf]

You can't deny they don't suffer from time to time:)

But that's just how it is - luck ofcourse plays a role. The same way you can fail pretty bad due to a bad die throw, you can score a critical success as well. Where's the problem?
To simplify it even further, what would any boardgame look like if you take away the dices, or make it so the dices always land on the same number the player wants, like avv said? Would Monopoly be a better game if there'd be no dices at all? Or this, wouldn't it look weird if there'd be no randomness in die throwing here? :




It would, it would be fucking boring.

There's good and bad randomness. Good randomness is when you randomly encounter a treasure while walking in the desert, or randomly craft a little better equipment than you expected. Random nice surprises are good.

In your previous comment you basically said all randomness is bad (wtf..), now you say there is good randomness and bad randomness. Revisionist much?

Then there's bad randomness which basically goes like this: "you were critically hit in the head for 120 damage, had your armor bypassed and were knocked out for -20 ap"

Ah, so it's only good if it auto-fellates you and makes something "awesome", but losing something is a no-go? 

Pretty much agree with all what RavenousRat said here.