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Half wipe

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avv:

--- Quote from: T-888 on October 22, 2011, 08:04:05 PM ---You can craft everything , but there is one thing players can't craft and that is money. Since this would help developers see how the new crafting system works and how economy works under circumstances that there is no broken bank system and if they would fix things like 5mm stealing , it would be really interesting how things go.
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--- Quote ---What are the most important resources for making equipment to fight ? HQ ore , minerals , where do we get them ? Mines , so they will be filled , pk's and apk relationship will sky rocket.
--- End quote ---


Might or might not. They may have few clashes that decide who has the control. After that the winning side will get lots of gear and the losing side not only gets nothing but also loses stuff so they go underground. It's because the way fights go in fonline. If one side is dominating, it will dominate as long as the players stay active. Even if the losing side puts up "furious and unyielding resistance" it will be simply countered with equally furious countermeasures. That's because the winning side is rich and only thing left to do is to fight for the sake of fighting.
This leads to dodging actions by the weaker gangs: late night or early morning captures, bluesuit retardness, escapes, logoffs or gear dismantling in tc and trying to avoid open combat. It's because when gang goes to war, it hits one place with full force and the weaker side knows they don't stand a chance.
Situation might be differend if the sides are equal and stay that way. Or there are so many participating gangs that the dominating one simply can't keep up. Can't remember if that has ever happened. In fonline history it's always been either one gang dominating whole wasteland, a dominating alliance of gangs sharing towns or like now: so much stuff that having towns don't even matter so tc is done for the sake of fighting.


--- Quote ---What are good ways to obtain caps , since there would be no broken bank system and maybe some features fixed ? TC and trading with players , players offer more than traders and TC is self explanatory , where do you think big factions will get the money to buy cars , use mercs etc. etc. ? - TC !
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If a gang dominates in tc, it dominates in everything it decides to do. So only reason to trade caps is if they simply won't bother to craft and farm all the gear.
But hard to say, you may have something here. It all depends on how the tc goes with the set of gangs that would participate in it. The beginning of this wipe was ruined by bos pickpocket and bank interest so there didn't exist a real fights over caps.


--- Quote ---Players make items to fight - yes ! They hoard items so that they can upkeep fighting - yes ! Do players get items so they can sell them and make caps or trade for other items ? - YES ! Will this make pvp interesting since no one will have gazilion BA's in bases - YES ! etc. etc. :)
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But in the beginning everyone has nothing. Nobody will sell stuff if they don't have good ammount of it, I doubt someone will sell every item of one type he has if he needs them himself. And most wanted items are those that everyone needs. In fonline history the best merchants have been those who are super rich and got nothing else to do. Cajuns trading company existed in the beginning of this wipe and even I used their services. It was pure player interaction but the problem was that in the beginning I was poor and couldn't keep up with their prices. And they were selling stuff they would have needed themselves. 
So even if you are completely right about this increase of player interaction it can be surely said that it won't last. The nature of fonline and its players is that items get hoarded and BA carpets will be formed in every base.


--- Quote ---Low tech fighting is good  , wouldn't you mind to fight with something else then the usual avenger , ba , RL and sniper rifle ? As far as i know a lot of people here like low tech fighting because it gives the feeling of true wasteland or something :)
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I was talking about bluesuits in pipe rifles trying to get a lucky crit on guy with ba and avenger, then looting  and leaving to worldmap. This leads to the rich guys simply staying in worldmap because it's not worth fighting against low geared people due to the risk balance. So rich gang will end up waiting until someone has enough gear to challenge them. That happened during this wipe: gang x ran out of metal armors and tc gear so gang y had to nothing to do while gang x was farming.


--- Quote ---People please be opened minded and think about this from more than one point of view.
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Even with all that's been said against this - at this point everything test-related is worth doing.

Kilgore:
Personally, I would stop playing and gladly join the crowd that is waiting for wipe since x months. And I doubt that I'd be the only one acting like that :>

T-888:

--- Quote from: avv on October 22, 2011, 09:58:16 PM ---Might or might not. They may have few clashes that decide who has the control. After that the winning side will get lots of gear and the losing side not only gets nothing but also loses stuff so they go underground. It's because the way fights go in fonline. If one side is dominating, it will dominate as long as the players stay active.Even if the losing side puts up "furious and unyielding resistance" it will be simply countered with equally furious countermeasures. That's because the winning side is rich and only thing left to do is to fight for the sake of fighting. This leads to dodging actions by the weaker gangs: late night or early morning captures, bluesuit retardness, escapes, logoffs or gear dismantling in tc and trying to avoid open combat. It's because when gang goes to war, it hits one place with full force and the weaker side knows they don't stand a chance. Situation might be differend if the sides are equal and stay that way. Or there are so many participating gangs that the dominating one simply can't keep up. Can't remember if that has ever happened. In fonline history it's always been either one gang dominating whole wasteland, a dominating alliance of gangs sharing towns or like now: so much stuff that having towns don't even matter so tc is done for the sake of fighting.

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This can happen even after the actual wipe , so .....

I don't agree on some of your points but i won't argue about every single detail it's unimportant to this topic.

If at least a part of this happens after half wipe it will be a success.

btw your going too deep , too many variables can't know for sure , you must understand that it's just a speculation it can happen differently under other circumstances , few scenarios can't always tell the " big picture " or show an universal principle that applies to all situations.


--- Quote from: avv on October 22, 2011, 09:58:16 PM ---If a gang dominates in tc, it dominates in everything it decides to do. So only reason to trade caps is if they simply won't bother to craft and farm all the gear.
But hard to say, you may have something here. It all depends on how the tc goes with the set of gangs that would participate in it. The beginning of this wipe was ruined by bos pickpocket and bank interest so there didn't exist a real fights over caps.

--- End quote ---

They buy stuff instead of crafting because they can and their resources allows it for a good reason , it's how it should be. There has to be more of a reason to control the wasteland than just simply fight , half wipe can refresh that after time to time.

About the bold part this is why i said , it could be interesting how things go. You just gave me an interesting thought , people won't play if there is nothing new ? But will they play if just some broken features are fixed and the game is somewhat balanced in that way ? Needs test.



--- Quote from: avv on October 22, 2011, 09:58:16 PM ---But in the beginning everyone has nothing. Nobody will sell stuff if they don't have good amount of it, I doubt someone will sell every item of one type he has if he needs them himself. And most wanted items are those that everyone needs. In fonline history the best merchants have been those who are super rich and got nothing else to do. Cajuns trading company existed in the beginning of this wipe and even I used their services. It was pure player interaction but the problem was that in the beginning I was poor and couldn't keep up with their prices. And they were selling stuff they would have needed themselves. 
So even if you are completely right about this increase of player interaction it can be surely said that it won't last. The nature of fonline and its players is that items get hoarded and BA carpets will be formed in every base.

--- End quote ---

Hmm you have some interesting points , but yes i know that the player interaction won't last forever after half wipe or the actual wipe , the bases , tents will get filled with stuff sooner or later , but if the half wipe is periodicly after 5 , 6 months , maybe players will not over exaggerate with the carpets at least they shouldn't.


--- Quote from: avv on October 22, 2011, 09:58:16 PM ---I was talking about bluesuits in pipe rifles trying to get a lucky crit on guy with ba and avenger, then looting  and leaving to worldmap. This leads to the rich guys simply staying in worldmap because it's not worth fighting against low geared people due to the risk balance. So rich gang will end up waiting until someone has enough gear to challenge them. That happened during this wipe: gang x ran out of metal armors and tc gear so gang y had to nothing to do while gang x was farming.
Even with all that's been said against this - at this point everything test-related is worth doing.

--- End quote ---

Heh :) , yes i suppose something like that can happen and happens but it doesn't mean it will always be like that , it takes just a victory or two to get equipment to challenge them further without being lucky , it's good i hope you understand that there is always stronger teams and weaker , there cannot be a perfect balance. Someone will just have to improve to pull off victories , nothing more to say.

Ganado:
I would prefer another "April Fools" day event where the devs reverted the game to a version in 2009, but this time for a couple days or a week before putting it back to the current save state. That was fun.

OskaRus:

--- Quote from: T-888 on October 22, 2011, 08:04:05 PM ---We are talking about half wipe no the actual wipe , this half wipe can be used for major-minor changes that allows developers to test and readjust features of economy and other minor stuff more frequently and therefore making a better game , don't you want this ? If not - why ?

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You have answered yourself. If devs would need wipe or some half assed wipe to introduce new features they would do it. It is absolute nonsense from players to request wipe.

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