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[Josh]

[Backstory] So I was bored in class and wishing I could play fonline, so I decided to think about more multipurpose builds when it dawned on me that I couldn't even remember half the skills available due to uselessness. And then I remembered a compliment I received from a moderator on a suggestion about fusing some skills together. The gears started turning and by next block I had made a very rough draft of a possible alternative skill section. [/Backstory]

NOTE: Stats would remain the same in this system, however they would affect skills differently in some cases.

Combat Skills:*
Light Weapons: the classification for any weapon that is not heavy or energy based. it would contain all entries under small guns and the lighter melee weapons such as knives & spears. perhaps frag grenades should also be placed here or perhaps they should remain independent...

Heavy Weapons: the classification for any of the weapons that are not light or energy based (with possible exception of gatling). it would contain the current big guns items and also include the more brutish melee weapons, namely the sledge family and the louisville slugger. perhaps contains incendiary grenades or perhaps they should remain independent.

Energy Weapons: the classification of all energy based weapons, both ranged and melee. if grenades are not independent then the plasma and pulse grenades would be placed here.

Non-Combat Skills:*
Medicine: first aid and doctor, used both in the field and at the med terminal.

Technology: science rebranded all shiny and new, deals with the creation of energy weapons and their accessories and the interaction with Pre-War artifacts.

Mechanic: an upgraded version of repair that deals both with the restoration and manufacture of all mechanical weapons. used to craft both light and heavy weapons, although the professions would remain separate.

Burgler: all the troll skills rolled into one loathsome package, contains the functions of lockpick, sneak, traps, and (unfortunately) steal. feel free to tack a nice cooldown onto this one.

* I separate the skills this way solely to display them effectively, not to say that the skills must be divided into those groups if used.

Notes on Combat Skills: I decided that it would best to include melee weapons in the other categories so they are used by more the a few players on a regular basis. You will also notice that there is no mention of melee and little of throwing, I will explain why in Independent Skills.

Independent Skills: I felt that some skills shouldn't require an investable skill category but should instead be based off one's stats and increase in effectiveness as the player advances in level. The theory behind this is that they would require no special training and would advance in effectiveness over time keeping innate capabilities in mind. Unarmed would be the primary example of this, an equation would be made determining how many skill points the skill increases by each level.
A quick example formula would be:
UNARMED=(LEVEL)*[6(STRENGTH)/10+4(ENDURANCE)10+4(AGILITY)10]+6
Plugging in my build:
21*[6(6)/10+4(1)/10+4(10)/10]+6=21*[36/10+4/10+40/10]+6=21*[8]+6=174
Certainly an improvement over the typical melee skill of a small guns crafter & user.
Other skills using this system would be throwing (although the crafting of grenades would fall into their classification's profession), barter/speech, outdoorsman, and gambling.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

[Jotisz]

Personally I don't really like the suggestion if the system must change I would much rather see it like this.
For ranged weapons
Handguns (all one handed gun laser pistol too)
Rifles (all rifle be it fn fall or sniper I would add the laser rifle here too)
Heavy weapons (plasma and the bigguns)
Close combat
Brawling (all hand to hand fight include throwing of knives and spears)
Martial art (to unlock the other punch and kick types)
Other skill merges
Demolation (granades bombs traps etc)
Survival (outdoorsman and some minor healing)
Medical (first aid and doctor skill)

Still even though this above one is my idea I still prefer the existing system and I think others do too.

[OskaRus]

And one more skill
Demotivation - skill to ruin others game, troll, make them cry and ragequit. xD


Otherwise we dont need to change SPECIAL at all. It works fine. If some skills are not used at all? Remove them or let them there and never look at them.

[kraskish]

so intelligence trait would be useless? More powerbuilds here we go!

[Josh]

@Jotisz, the point of merging is too make fewer options so people spend it on more then one area of skills...

@OskaRus, yes this is why I said the stat system would remain the same but have skills like unarmed and such tied directly in it.

@krashkishm I only gave unarmed as an example because its easy to make a formula for that people won't argue over. Intelligence helps determine speech/barter, SP gain, and the base stats of basically all the non-combat skills.

@Rat, first note how you only mention guns in there since unarmed/melee just isn't useful to invest in either as separate options or lumped in one. Second, more versatile use just requires a non-specialized build, you can use both sniping and burst mode as long as you don't get fast shot, you might not be successful against specialized power builds but you can do it. Repair has a use now, while speech and barter will never be of high enough priority to dedicate points to. Whether or not sneak needs to be reworked isn't being discussed in this thread. Right now the reason people are so different is because it is better to have a char with a build dedicated to each activity then to have a mixture. If you believe people becoming more generalized a bad thing think of how it would reduce the need for alting.

[RavenousRat]

Instead of merging skills, you could suggest new ways how to use all of them. All combat skills can be versatile, simply need more balancing, adding pulse weapons to ignore laser/plasma resistance, but of course they should be much weaker than now, making bozar non-rare weapon to see BG snipers, make turbo-plasma weaker but do bursts instead of more range + less AP per shot, etc. This way any SGer/BGer/EWer could be sniper, single fast shoter or burster. About repair/science/lockpick/speech/gambling, it can't be used now properly because of lack of content yet, not because there's no way for imagination how to make them work. Reworking sneak skill to make it useful on 100%, 150% and 200%, not only on 300%+ghost by adding new factors affecting success like shadows/obstacles. And there are much more ways.
Merging skills will only make all players more similar to each other.

[Reiniat]

Instead of merging skills, you could suggest new ways how to use all of them. All combat skills can be versatile, simply need more balancing, adding pulse weapons to ignore laser/plasma resistance, but of course they should be much weaker than now, making bozar non-rare weapon to see BG snipers, make turbo-plasma weaker but do bursts instead of more range + less AP per shot, etc. This way any SGer/BGer/EWer could be sniper, single fast shoter or burster. About repair/science/lockpick/speech/gambling, it can't be used now properly because of lack of content yet, not because there's no way for imagination how to make them work. Reworking sneak skill to make it useful on 100%, 150% and 200%, not only on 300%+ghost by adding new factors affecting success like shadows/obstacles. And there are much more ways.
Merging skills will only make all players more similar to each other.

I wanted to write almost ecxactly the same stuff 
Also, please reconsider my old suggestion about:
--change name of Traps to Explosives and include all types of Grenades, Rocket Launcher and Dynamite, and Molotov.
--Kill the Throwing skill, all thrownable (but not blownable) guns will go to Melee Weapons
--Add the goddamned pulse guns!!!

Original treath here:
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=17215.msg142081#msg142081

[Johnnybravo]

. About repair/science/lockpick/speech/gambling, it can't be used now properly because of lack of content yet, not because there's no way for imagination how to make them work.

Not true, some are already well used, others will never fit mmo game.

[RavenousRat]

others will never fit mmo game.

It can fit mmo, if it'll affect only user or can be used in some instances/quests which have fixed number of players. This way alting for those skill will be useless, like making repair skill passive and affect speed of deterioration and active only to remove force fields and do other things in some events where your pure-repair alt will be useless as you'll need to do many things there and you can't leave/enter location at any time. The same can be done with any other skills.

[Johnnybravo]

But repair is cool, speech or gambling is not.

[kraskish]

@krashkishm I only gave unarmed as an example because its easy to make a formula for that people won't argue over. Intelligence helps determine speech/barter, SP gain, and the base stats of basically all the non-combat skills.

So basically INTELLIGENCE will become obsolete skill IF I can put ALL to COMBAT SKILLS (because as u say INT wont affect combat skills) = ultra powerbuilds

[Eternauta]

I don't think I'd support changing the Skill system unless it's something like what they've done in New Vegas or what Surf's gonna do in What Remains.

I kinda agree with what RavenousRat said... Maybe some skills will always be a lot more useful than others but that's what happened in the original games, too. A completely balanced system where all skills are equally important and useful sounds rather impossible and, in this particular game, would probably encourage alting anyway.

[Josh]

So basically INTELLIGENCE will become obsolete skill IF I can put ALL to COMBAT SKILLS (because as u say INT wont affect combat skills) = ultra powerbuilds

ffs read the post then try to comprehend!
"I only gave unarmed as an example because its easy to make a formula for that people won't argue over. Intelligence helps determine speech/barter, SP gain, and the base stats of basically all the non-combat skills."
I said that INT wouldn't be a factor in the independently increasing Unarmed Skill, and that it would be useful in almost all the Non-combat Skills. Not that the Non-Combat Skills would be the only skills using it. Energy would definitely rely on it and the others might too to a lesser degree.

[kraskish]

ffs read the post then try to comprehend!

I read lol

I said that INT wouldn't be a factor in the independently increasing Unarmed Skill, and that it would be useful in almost all the Non-combat Skills. Not that the Non-Combat Skills would be the only skills using it. Energy would definitely rely on it and the others might too to a lesser degree.

this equals

So basically INTELLIGENCE will become obsolete skill IF I can put ALL to COMBAT SKILLS (because as u say INT wont affect combat skills) = ultra powerbuilds

Youre saying INT wont be needed for COMBAT skills. So Ill make 10 PE 10 AGI 10 ST and 10 Luck character - Heavy guns or Sniper (more or less). It would make the game unbalanced.

[Josh]

Look here,  INTELLIGENCE WILL AFFECT ENERGY WEAPONS! IT WILL ALSO HAVE A PART IN THE OTHER COMBAT SKILLS JUST NOT AS BIG OF ONE!! do you get it now?