Other > General Game Discussion
Gathering after wipe
ErnestGaskin:
can second on the encouraging of "cheating" and safe hq mining.
since i started mining & crafing on reloging, i was making 48 hq ores per 2 hours; crafting BAs, DKS and plasma rifles took 26 per 2 hours. I had to "mine" hq minerals only once, 12 slaves mined 600+ for me in a few short hours and i still have 200+ left. i estabilished myself in a week, when i was selling 1,3 mil worth of stuff to C88.
in all this time in redding HQ mine i wasnt shot once. there was one incident, when some crafty sonofa stole 4 ores from me when mining. and thats about it. all my mining characters were lvl 1 and had 26 hp.
maybe the hq mining should not be that aviable. maybe you should learn it by a quest with some reqs, as you did in FO2 with skinning geckos. im not saying that would put a stop to the reloging mining, but it sure would make it a bit harder. and harder aint exactly what you go for when you are looking for the easy way to get through.
and its hq ores, aint it. should be mined carefuly and with some expertise. im sure my 26 hp ncr-basement dweler didnt know shit bout how to recognise HQ ores from brahmin goo.
maybe cooldowns should stick to clients. as reloging timeouts do. maybe hq mines should be more hostile than ants or one alien that makes you create another character for mining if you accidentaly aggroed him once.
and.
not to keep it short. irradiation is not actually gonna do well in this. have you ever wondered, where you can meet the cyrilic named guy that holds the "cat burglar" place in your statistics? Glow, thats where. You will be lucky if you meet him without "off" after his name. Be sure to check him with burst or steal, you will be surprised what ammount of good stuff, as well as radiation drugs this guy has.
avv:
--- Quote from: scypior on August 02, 2011, 11:30:40 PM ---What can change the nature of the man?
I really see no possibility for this discussion to end - some are stating that they are doing what they are doing because game mechanics are like they are, and some are stating that they just do not like such approach. Everything is fine - everyone has own opinion on that.
--- End quote ---
Talking about that cheating is no use, it happens and will happen unless it's not encouraged anymore.
--- Quote ---Though the problem is still unsolved, yet I'm unsure if it can be solved as easily as some of you are stating ('just remove damned waiting!').
--- End quote ---
What can be said for sure is that materials from bases need to go. They are simply autoclicker baits and nothing more. Either for example fibers, meat and fruits have to be tended with materials carried from outside of the base, extracted from some dangerous location or they have to be limited and included in the base price.
Like said, risking is the key. Since death has no meaning, players need to risk their gear to get more gear. I heard encounters and farming them will be buffed, if disassembling weapons provides materials for other supplies it might do it. Just need to make sure those encounters can't be abused with insane powerbuilds or other exploits. And that high science doesn't provide more parts, or everyone is forced to make a science-alt.
Encounter-based materials, like junk, wood and healing powder parts could always be guarded by hostile npcs. Also instead of having to look for them by spamming maps, those areas with materials should be easy to find rather than being randomized. This way the rate of gathering is set by how fast you get rid of their guardians. There could be more and less dangerous areas. The more dangerous - the more materials in encounter. Encounters are good because if you die, you lose your gear. If you leave, you get nothing and the next enc has full enemies again. Only abuse is to use a car because it leaves a visible mark on world map. That could be solved by not allowing players to find materials with a car, or allow distresses in those places so that nobody can come there with a car.
It may sound dumb that everything involves fighting npcs like it was diablo. But managing through the hitpoint-reducing strikes of npcs and dealing damage to them in effective manner is one of the best puzzles there is already ingame. If someone comes up with some clever idea for a puzzle that doesn't involve fighting to find materials that'd be great aswell.
Unsafe mines are pretty fine, players themselves set the difficulty there. Sometimes it's non-existing, sometimes overwhelming but there's always a danger present. Problem is that the level of danger is too random compared to the equipment of the miners. Because of this hq mats could be also achieved elsewhere, like from those farmable encounters.
If there comes an occasion where no pks are present in the mine and someone just gets to mine hundreds and hundreds of ores, there could be some npcs spawning and harassing him. The npcs would loot and leave if the player died so that he can't come back and spam the npc to death.
Safe mines could simply have a global limit that restocks random ammount of ores each 20mins. That's the simpliest way, it's like a cooldown but unavoidable. Maybe the ores get depleted occasionally but safe mines are basically like breadline, handing out free stuff.
ErnestGaskin:
you are somehow right. though there already is too much shooting for a fallout game. sending more aspects towards this way aint gonna help that. not talking about there is something wrong with getting gear for gear only. that threatens by shortage and i believe thats a reason you get something like crafting anyway.
lets not forget not everyone likes to be shooting or shot at. and these people could easily be the last player-"spice" there is left.
getting rid of base supplies would be wrong too. the ammount of mats a real crafter has to keep stacked is almost insane for such a concept. thats beside the rp aspect. i can hardly believe anyone would ever settle in a place that would not provide at least something for him.
sticking cooldowns to the client should be much more effective way how to avoid relogging. might encourage dualloging or even proxies, but thats far harder than simple relogging, is actually considered "criminal behavior" and, in most cases, is easily detectable.
irradiating hq mines and disabling logging off in irradiated areas (same way as its done in the jail) could be another way. and might help the glow, too.
honestly i dont think anything else than hq mats is actual problem. i very rarely see huge ammounts of any mats at traders, that would suggest some "wrong" way of getting these mats. autoclicking fibers for insane supplies and then selling it in any other way than raw is pure nonsense and if anyone wants to go through with that, i say let the poor bastard do it. noone is gonna relog to gather lq ores, if, they will get a pack of slaves. and as far as i understand that, that is getting redone. so, actually, what.
avv:
--- Quote from: ErnestGaskin on August 03, 2011, 12:48:56 PM ---lets not forget not everyone likes to be shooting or shot at. and these people could easily be the last player-"spice" there is left.
--- End quote ---
The point is that there should always be some risk or challenge if you want to receive something. Current challenge is to combat the time sinks related to transporting yourself to material extraction locations. Instead of patience the challenge could be something more exciting and fast, fighting is the simple solution but catering for that differend player "spice" would be cool too. Just can't think of something this other set of players would enjoy doing so that it doesn't become plain grind.
--- Quote ---getting rid of base supplies would be wrong too. the ammount of mats a real crafter has to keep stacked is almost insane for such a concept. thats beside the rp aspect. i can hardly believe anyone would ever settle in a place that would not provide at least something for him.
--- End quote ---
If gathering was fast and unlimited, lack of base gathering mats wouldn't be such a big deal. Bases are used for item storage and car park for gangs mostly. The purpose is to send players to outdoors rather than sitting in their base gathering fruits, meat or fiber.
--- Quote ---irradiating hq mines and disabling logging off in irradiated areas (same way as its done in the jail) could be another way. and might help the glow, too.
--- End quote ---
Thought about this, but then big gangs would make one tough anti-rad char to scout and keep rest of the players on worldmap. If the worldmap is radiated, they will move to distance and use a car. But it could be tested.
--- Quote ---honestly i dont think anything else than hq mats is actual problem.
--- End quote ---
This isn't about economics but getting the mats so that it's enjoyable and cheat-free. And beleave me, fiber-autoclicker is real and why not meat as well.
Crovax:
i have too agree with avv. putting these things on the map in random encounters gets people out there in places where they can encounter each other, also it would help for people who hang around in the south because they wouldn't need to walk or drive to the north everytime they want a few HQ ores. right now theres no one roaming the waste exept noobs and hardcore pkers who have time to travel for hours searching players or who go in SF to fight TB.
everyone is either leveling, gathering in some town or base and crafting, and after that i guess they do TC or something because i never see them in the waste anymore. :/
I really miss the times when u couldn't walk the map without encountering someone and there were people fighting in large groups all over wasteland, and this idea seems to promote at the very least getting people out there instead of being on log timer limbo for hours to make 1 BA and a gun or something thats just not worth it.
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