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[jangling]

Replace CH3 Check
I enjoy the concept of needing a check in order to trade/talk, although it is one of the worst things that promote alts.
My issue is with a special check, as special is not cuszomizable. What i mean by this is we know the perks we need in wasteland so it dictates our specual and theres not much room to really flesh out a chracter with a dynamic role.

Currently, if you are not strong enough or have low perception, you can invest skill points gained from intelligence to balance out this gap in order to gain a good ToHit%.
This is not the case for Talking, and i dont see why not.

The new mechanic:
What i am suggesting is to replace the CH check with a speech check, some core mechanics would need to change for balance reasons however.
CH 3 now starts with 15% speech due to the formula speech = 5xCh Note: Wiki says 25% + (2% x Charisma), but this forumlar was from observing the FCP
So this would be the check, if you had 15% speech you could talk to people, if you did not have CH 3 you could invest SP into speech.
The problem here is a balance issue, obviously putting 10 sp for the ability to talk with CH1 is imbalanced compared to old system.

So change the formular to Speech = 30xCh (or something abit more clever), this way, one would need to invest 60 SP to charm the NPC into trading/quest giving. (or some other balanced number, this is not really important for conceptualizing the idea)
Mentats and beer would be an issue but there may be a work around (suggestions?).
The main thing i wanted to bring up is that special checks are not very effective in the multiplayer RPG realm because there very fixed. Skillpoints, we have hundreds of, and can distribute them a little bit easier. 


edit: formatting.

[Stration]

That's not a bad idea at all, although I must admit I somehow can't think of a single situation where it would be useful.

[Senocular]

I like it, just not 60 skill points but less. 60 SP is 10% of total skill points you can get with 10 INT and Skilled Trait. It intends to help builds with 1CH which in most cases are powerbuilds and those can't let themselves waste 60 SP. It should be an OPTION - so you can either get 3CH or raise your speech skill.

[Chrupek]

There was better suggestions already: new perk +2 Charisma, just for bartering charisma test. Of course perk from the group of non combat perks.

[Perteks]

There was better suggestions already: new perk +2 Charisma, just for bartering charisma test. Of course perk from the group of non combat perks.

It can be just changed smooth talker skill to +2ch than +1 int to purpouse of dialogues

[jangling]

It can be just changed smooth talker skill to +2ch than +1 int to purpouse of dialogues

Excellent! This is a great compromise i believe, and because next wipe we will have more perks it will be easier to combined with required perks (such as life giver).
IMO special checks (in everything, especially crafting) are very restrictive, the more workarounds the better.
It would be nice to have characters that could fight (at standard pvp level) and also had access to all the other things in games. Likewise characters that can talk, craft and quest that can fight in pvp.

[jonny rust]

It would be nice to have characters that could fight (at standard pvp level) and also had access to all the other things in games. Likewise characters that can talk, craft and quest that can fight in pvp.

thats the dream imo and If we get to that state of balance I might stop considering this a beta test

[Luther Blissett]

I'd rather see the balance worked so a 'normal' character (like you'd use in Fallout / Fallout 2) became a viable possible build. Whether it's by punishment (i.e. CH1 characters can't join gangs, travel as part of groups, or enter towns without getting shot at) or reward (i.e. combat skills and perks are taught by NPCs. Better skills are are taught to higher CH characters) or by whatever other system can be thought of, I'd see this as far preferable to making special measures being taken to make Ch1-mutants more dominant.

A CH1 character should be as abhorrent as a freakish child killer paedophile or something - rather than just being a minor inconvenience when shopping (one of my 'test' characters is a CH1 mutant - and yeah, he can't buy from some of the shops and can't lead a group... it's hardly the equivalent of setting any other stat to 1).

I know that nobody seems to have found a unanimously agreed solution to it yet, but if you're thinking of changing the game so low CH effectively means nothing, you'd be better simply removing the stat and some SPECIAL points.

[edit] ... which would then be called SPEIAL points, obviously.

[jonny rust]

maybe charisma should effect your speech in someway like intelligence does. i.e. CH1 means you can only say a few words at a time, or even have a cool down as you have some form of aspergers disease

BTW i dont think there needs to be a universally agreed upon solution to this problem, just one that the devs like and want to test. then we see how well it works.

[Senocular]

(one of my 'test' characters is a CH1 mutant - and yeah, he can't buy from some of the shops and can't lead a group... it's hardly the equivalent of setting any other stat to 1).

You missed the point that SPECIAL stats aren't equal and they can't be made equal.

[jonny rust]

You missed the point that SPECIAL stats aren't equal and they can't be made equal.

I thought that was the point he was making, albeit more optimistically... we are talking about SPECIAL balancing at this point.

[jangling]

you'd be better simply removing the stat and some SPECIAL points.... which would then be called SPEIAL points, obviously.

I agree, we could do without CH at the moment could get rid of most the special actually. But as Luther Blissett said if there where more benefits to having CH, (not punishments) like merc numbers (the only good mechanic CH checks are useful for) then maybe it would be worth dropping some endurance. At the moment, i totally agree, there is no balance between say CH and agility, or CH and strength. It just dose not do enough positive things. Just because something inconvenient, it wont distract players from doing it, it just makes the game less enjoyable.

With this logic of getting rid of CH, we can limit special options to 8+ endurance because its required for pvp.
or make luck a choice of 1, 6 or 10. etc etc
The special is already like this. its not flexible at all at the moment and the reason why we could not have fallout 1/2 chars is because of a level cap (a needed mechanic), you select your perks first and decided on your max HP, then shape your special to fit it (with aid of drugs and traits) then kill mole rats till that build takes its form you see on the FCP.


seems everyone is in agreement that special is abit of a problem right now, but we have already heard some interesting changes from the devs that may infact be big jumps forward. Also i just wanted to say, please no punishment mechanics- ever.

[Solar]

There was better suggestions already: new perk +2 Charisma, just for bartering charisma test. Of course perk from the group of non combat perks.

Yes, this seems better. Though we could unlock it at a certain speech % and combine the two ideas.

[avv]

Yes, this seems better. Though we could unlock it at a certain speech % and combine the two ideas.

Better not have a speech limit or apes can't take it and then they will use trader alts instead.