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[vedaras]

Well first of all i want to say, im not trying to make another "this and that is overpowered" type topic.


Now as we all played fallout 1, fallout 2 sometimes playing fonline results in strange experience. For example i was in one combat in new reno, was hit 3 times by laser pistol and the damage was: 100, 110, 125. Of course my first thought is what the fuckin fuck? I go to fallout wikia to check stats and what i see? Laser pistol, a weapon who can be crafted without any profession, has a damage of 20-35! While if we compare for example 223 pistol it has 25-30 damage. So the result is, that devs made weapon on common craftable items list being even as level 3 weapon. Well, you could now tell, that this or that was needed for balancing purpose or other,  but i now compare the weapons stats with those in fallout 2 http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_2_weapons and those in 2238 http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Category:Weapons and i see that these huge increases might not be even needed  while there are weapons from f2 that are not added to  this game, but they have similar stats to those of new booseted 2238 weapons.

For example:

Laser pistol from 10-22 dmg to 20-35 dmg.
Plasma pistol from 15-35 dmg to 25-45 dmg.

Why boost those when we can have for example:
Phaser with 20-30 dmg. (which is very similar to new laser pistol dmg.)
YK32 Pulse pistol with 32-46 dmg. (which is very similar to new plasma pistol dmg, just a little better, but has a lower range (5 hexes), so i think it would be fine replacement for this powered plasma pistol)

Also if for example plasma pistol has 25-45 dmg now. why not to add gauss pistol as a regular weapon with its 22-32 damage (for purposes of truth i should mention that ammo makes damage better than plasma pistols, but i think that this can be modified).

Another example:
Because weapons that are being compared uses different ammo, now i will take it into account. In this example both small gun bursters have 2x bonus ranged damage, and their victim wears combat leather jacket. So the result:
P90 dmg was 12-16 and 12 bullets burst with (14-2+4) * 12 * 2 * 0,43 = 165,12 total damage and now its 13-19 and 12 bullets burst with (16-2+4) * 12 * 2 * 0,43 =185,76 total damage.
While in f2 and in 2238 (unused) there is H&K G11 and H&K G11E.
H&K G11 dmg is 10-20 and 5 bullets burst with (15-2+4) * 5 * 1,5 * 0,8 = 102 total damage.
H&K G11E dmg is 13-23 and 7 bullets burst with (18-2+4) * 7 * 1.5 * 0,8 = 168 total damage. (even worse than new p90!).
Or if you dont want to add new weapons, you can for example return upgraded fn fal 20 bullets burst as it was in f2^^

So my question is why not to add old weapons when as you see many of them are pretty much exact power as they are needed to be in fonline, and we could stick closer to f2 with some weapons that are in game (like laser/plasma pistol). What do you think about that?

[spears]

Armour resistance to laser is ridiculous though take your example of a 223 vs a laser pistol shooting at mamk2 both hit their max damage. Even ignoring the 223s penetrate perk you get.
223
30-4/100x65 gives you a damage of 16.9
laser
35-7/100x20 gives a damage of 5.6
This is using the dt/dr calcs from the wiki anyway.
So the damage of the laser isnt more than your tier 3 gun.
I think its better to balance weapons into useability than keep them the same as fo2.

[avv]

Merging weapon skills could help.

[T-888]

Merging weapon skills could help.

I remember Lexx mentioning that this could be a viable option , but dunno this is not fallout new vegas.

[vedaras]

I think its better to balance weapons into useability than keep them the same as fo2.

the thing is that many of the hits bypasses armor, if you have 10 luck + better criticals it is around 30%. The other thing is that you took armor on which laser has biggest disadvantage (also remember that magneto-laser pistol bypasses armor also and its a real cheap upgrade). The last thing is dont forget that you compare 2 weapons, one is fuckin cheap, one is fuckin expensive and require level 3 profession to be crafted (and you want them to be even).

Also talking about balance dont forget that all weapons will never be used, some weapons just suck, you cant expect mauser to be as good as rocket launcher, and you wont increase its value just because it sucks. Same should be with laser pistol, as i told before we have weapons like pulse pistol which would be perfectly balanced in this case and energy weapon users will have no disadvantage. (except of that, that they wont have ability to get weapon with insane damage for that cheap price, but that would be very balanced and fair).

Also when you talk about balance listen to my point, these weapons which are now unused are very fuckin balanced (because upgrades to various weapons mentioned before were made to invent weapons that were already invented just unused).

[spears]

I took a reasonable pvp armour to be shooting at, not like i chose tesla.
Yes you can upgrade the gun to magneto which then has the same penetrating perk as the 223 already has (which i ignored for the last example)
Armour bypassing is a critical which is a balance issue in its own right not jsut a weapon balance one.
And finally i dont want the lvl 1 weapon to be the same it should be worse, which it is.

[vedaras]

I took a reasonable pvp armour to be shooting at, not like i chose tesla.
Yes you can upgrade the gun to magneto which then has the same penetrating perk as the 223 already has (which i ignored for the last example)
Armour bypassing is a critical which is a balance issue in its own right not jsut a weapon balance one.
And finally i dont want the lvl 1 weapon to be the same it should be worse, which it is.

Reasonable pvp armour is brotherhood armour, all others are used by bums only. Also you should not forget that many people have 2x toughness, while there are no perks giving resistance against laser weaponary. In same place i agree that 223 is still a better weapon, just by what amount. I think in here you dont seem to understand balance thing right. This is how i imagine situation balanced:
if Weapon usefulness is divided by the weapon cost is even with same equation of other weapon, then weapons are balanced. Now for example we would get something like this. Lets rate weapons from 1-100 where 100 is best. Lets rate 223 pistol 100 in here, since it is best in this situation. So laser pistol then is 80 (my opinion). Now lets check price: Laser pistol 220 caps, 223 pistol 2230 caps. I think its pretty clear now that these weapons are far from balanced, and they would be balanced if:

100 - 2230
80 - X

laser pistol would cost X caps which is 1784. And this is 5 times the price that it currently has.
But what i suggested in first place, was to make laser pistol as good as 220 caps worth weapon and add substitute like phaser with price of 1784 and being as good as current laser pistol. simple enough, fair and balanced.

[Hector C]

I think you are vastly overestimating the power of the laser pistol:  I just shot someone in a leather jacket for 50 40 30 and 30 damage in the eyes.  If you were hit for 100 damage three times in a row you simply ran into unlucky variance.

[Michaelh139]

I think you are vastly overestimating the power of the laser pistol:  I just shot someone in a leather jacket for 50 40 30 and 30 damage in the eyes.  If you were hit for 100 damage three times in a row you simply ran into unlucky variance.

sounds to me you're a fast shotter....  are you aiming to the eyes?  and what were the other effects other then damage?   everyone knows knockout = insta kill pretty much.

[Hector C]

aiming to eyes, more crit (1), better crit, 6 luck.

edit: I hardly ever do 100+ damage even with magneto, even against armorless critters

[Reiniat]

aiming to eyes, more crit (1), better crit, 6 luck.

edit: I hardly ever do 100+ damage even with magneto, even against armorless critters

yes you actually need a double eyes crit built to do something in combat.
but against bluesuits that weapons is really good. i like that construct, the weapon cant fight in real battles, but it can mess sg or bg bluesuits. its the way i think all the weapons should be, i mean you use x weapon and you have a big advantage against x distance, armor, gun, etc, etc. and in other situation you will be fucked up completely. its the way that all the shooter games works. it comes good to fonline.
tough dont even imagine that EW are overpowered, because they're not, they a piece of shit in armored combat, EW should stay with the same damage, but the other suggestions should be keeped in count.

But at this time devs should know how will be the new combat system, they have they're own ideas, and i want to see it soon

[vedaras]

aiming to eyes, more crit (1), better crit, 6 luck.

edit: I hardly ever do 100+ damage even with magneto, even against armorless critters

dude you have 6 luck and you want good criticals when many of stuff depends on rolls... I see it as your build drawback not laser pistols.

Reiniat: as you see in my suggestion the energy weapons damage would stay the same, it would be just made by different weapons! And i see here 2 advantages: more variety of weapons, and weapons would be closer as in original fallouts.

[Hector C]

it would be nice if this information were made available.  The damage formulas and such.

[Johnnybravo]

Yes you can upgrade the gun to magneto which then has the same penetrating perk as the 223 already has

In F2 magneto pistol had far more powerful "perk" than in 2238 (ignoring 5DT and 50 DT), while I don't remmember .223 doing anything.
Better have weapons like mentioned W1k useful than adding silly stuff like phasers.

but against bluesuits that weapons is really good

I'd like armor matter a little more. Armor bypasses are kinda meh (esp. they shouldn't happen vs extra-rare armors like PAs), but instakills ruin it much more - they devaluate both weapon and armor stats and should be extra rare should they exist at all.

one is fuckin cheap, one is fuckin expensive and require level 3 profession to be crafted (and you want them to be even).

Professions feel somewhat random and unfinished. You seriously think that Laser Rifle should be worse than 10mm SMG which would be equal to Minigun? Because due to professions it should.

[vedaras]

In F2 magneto pistol had far more powerful "perk" than in 2238 (ignoring 5DT and 50 DT), while I don't remmember .223 doing anything.
Better have weapons like mentioned W1k useful than adding silly stuff like phasers.I'd like armor matter a little more. Armor bypasses are kinda meh (esp. they shouldn't happen vs extra-rare armors like PAs), but instakills ruin it much more - they devaluate both weapon and armor stats and should be extra rare should they exist at all.Professions feel somewhat random and unfinished. You seriously think that Laser Rifle should be worse than 10mm SMG which would be equal to Minigun? Because due to professions it should.

Laser rifle was unchanged, so it neither should be or was worse than 10 mm smg. And of course i agree that laser rifle the most used weapon of ew in serious battles should have higher ranking in professions. I should also tell that one of my points in first place was to show that increasing stats like for example for laser pistol make dis-balance in crafting, thats why i think that either prices should be balanced, or various new weapons should be added, which are fallout canonical and matches the strength that is needed in weapons balancing.