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Author Topic: Living Game Universe  (Read 2321 times)

Living Game Universe
« on: March 15, 2011, 04:51:49 am »

A server-end nomad engine, wherein a certain number of nomads are assured to always be in the game, and are treated by the game engine as actual players (except, of course, that they are actually AI's). If one is killed, another one will spawn at a random location on the map. These NPCs would have randomly generated stats, and depending on those stats, would do various things. Such as, build cities, or form factions. So in essence, the game would be "living" and constantly changing depending on the actions of players and NPCs alike.

So NPC factions could go to war with one another and such. So let's say as an example, an NPC is spawned with very high CH and speech skills. It ran into some other NPCs and managed to gather a few NPC followers. They proceeded to mine and get materials to build a city. They build a city. Other nomads come across this city in their travels and settle in it; they get jobs, and/or hire out. City grows. This same thing happens elsewhere. The two NPC factions both want the same mine. War breaks out. Quests open up as a result, for joining either faction and fighting for them.

To achieve this, an object is required to generate random numbers and plug them into stats for a new NPC. These values are stored and referenced in a database. The tables' fields would mirror those on the player registration page (ST, CH, Small Arms %, etc). An action table is crossreferenced with the NPCs' stats in an event- and schedule-driven way to determine what they will do. The event-driven crossreferencing is necessary so they may act accordingly when acted upon, and schedule-driven crossreferencing is necessary so they will "live" even when alone, or not being acted upon. The action table would likely be simple, containing only a few fields, but mostly just an action name, the action directives (which would likely be client/server commands that would be sent as if the actions were actually coming from a real player's fonline:2238 client; that is, the NPCs perhaps could be treated by the engine largely as other players), and parameters like required intelligence for a particular thing (an NPC with intelligence 1 is not going to be a doctor).

The way I'm thinking about it now, the actions in the action table could largely mirror a player's actions; take a job, go out and get brahmin skins, sell them to a vendor, build a base, and so forth. They could also take on non-player actions, such as: Be a vendor. This action might entail staying in the same spot for a period of time, or building themselves a shop to facilitate this. Additionally, if they built a base as I mentioned earlier, instead of only showing up on faction members' maps, it could appear on everyones' maps should they run across it. This would give additional depth to the game, and make raiding these NPC bases almost like "instance running" in other MMOs.

Beyond just bases, perhaps they could also build cities, along with a related faction. Depending on the NPC faction, you could potentially enter those cities. They may be guarded, unguarded, or downright hostile. These cities could also come and go, be taken over, and so forth.

Among the most important parts of this is that it a rather non-intrusive feature addition. The whole system I'm describing here would actually run alongside the game server, and connect to it; that is, this functionality could be entirely implemented in parallel to the game's current development, since all these AIs could be simply treated as other players by the game server. So this system could have its own database and its own process.

In summary, all of this functionality hinges on 3 small additions:
- An NPC stats database (easy to design and populate),
- An actions table (requires thought and manual entry; this will take more debate than anything)
- An engine to work with them (this might take some time, but mostly just does what I described above regarding plugging random numbers, using SQL to push those numbers to the database, running the database against the actions table (could be hardcoded or also placed in the database), and then feeding the results into the game server via client/server protocol commands to effect the NPC's actions in the game).

I really hope some of you reading this now will find this interesting, as I'd really like to discuss the idea of a living game universe in FOnline:2238. I feel the idea has a lot of potential, but I also feel that some healthy discussion would clarify things and perhaps improve it further.
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Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2011, 06:22:40 am »

Good idea but the chance of it being implemented? The amount of work it would take to script this would be unbelievably long and hard. Unless of course you have 15 friends who have 5 months to work on it  ;D
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Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2011, 06:52:54 am »

Sounds amazing, but will never happen
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TheGreenHand

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Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2011, 07:01:21 am »

Yeah... my opinion... You write the code for all of that, make it coexist with the current game, and great job.  But, i feel that you won't be writing all that code, testing it with the current game, and make it work.

And that being so, great pipe dream.
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Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2011, 10:48:02 am »

No no no! Dont do it! Those entities would quickly gain their own consciousness and overwhlem FOnline world. And after it they would hack pentagons computers and launch judgement day! xD
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Sius

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Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2011, 02:44:00 pm »

Ah I see we have a new dreamer joining our ranks. Welcome brother!

But rest assured that no matter how great the FOnline's potential is, we will never get even 1/100 of it. Too little human resources and too much of an indie game the FOnline is. Ideas like these no matter how great they might sound will for next 2-3 years end in "sci-fi" section of suggestions. For now the 2238's evolution is pretty much about 3D models, which may after all be pretty much happening "soon".
Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2011, 02:52:02 pm »

Ah I see we have a new dreamer joining our ranks. Welcome brother!

But rest assured that no matter how great the FOnline's potential is, we will never get even 1/100 of it. Too little human resources and too much of an indie game the FOnline is. Ideas like these no matter how great they might sound will for next 2-3 years end in "sci-fi" section of suggestions. For now the 2238's evolution is pretty much about 3D models, which may after all be pretty much happening "soon".

Is the chance that bad? Why is there so much suggestions, then? Was something ever implemented?
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Sius

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Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2011, 03:13:45 pm »

Is the chance that bad? Why is there so much suggestions, then? Was something ever implemented?

Well something gets implemented here and there but compared to this everything so far were minorities. Not to mention that things discussed in 1st post are not even available for PC's and the idea here is to make them up and running for "AI". Extremely complex and time consuming challenge compared to other suggestions.

About suggestion implementation ratio then its another interesting statistics. I used to be very enthusiastic about 2238 but I've realized its simply free time project for a bunch od guys who love Fallout. Therefore anything complex or even simple but time consuming will get into the game with hell of a delay (if it ever gets devs attention and approval). Now I see that suggestions here on forums are more like a brainstorming area where devs can get inspiration and maybe sometimes when people cry loud enough then they can change some guns statistics or mob exp reward or some details like that.

But when it comes to visionary suggestions then the answer for "suggested : implemented" would be "n : 0" if I'm not mistaken.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 03:15:42 pm by Sius »
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cogliostro

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Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2011, 05:03:36 pm »

This would be worthy to take place on the fan art section, due to the creativity involved. You have the potential to write great stories that you can put there.

Is great this suggestion but might look utopic to be implemented in-game, and remain as a dream for his author.
But still, pretty nice idea, I like it.
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Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2011, 06:56:50 pm »

So it's moreover futile Wishes than Suggestions??
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Wasteland is a tricky business.
Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2011, 07:13:06 pm »

So it's moreover futile Wishes than Suggestions??

You got it, buddy boy. Try to think of it less as banging your head against a break wall, and more as just trying to get these ideas out your system - if that makes sense. They won't be implemented, no, but you'll feel better having explained it and justified it. It's cathartic, if futile.
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Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2011, 07:45:55 pm »

You got it, buddy boy. Try to think of it less as banging your head against a break wall, and more as just trying to get these ideas out your system - if that makes sense. They won't be implemented, no, but you'll feel better having explained it and justified it. It's cathartic, if futile.

Heh, that sucks for sure. I guess the developers must have something attractive to jump onto, then, like ready solution, be it a map, model, graphic or script, would that improve the chance, no?
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Wasteland is a tricky business.
Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2011, 09:13:57 pm »

Heh, that sucks for sure. I guess the developers must have something attractive to jump onto, then, like ready solution, be it a map, model, graphic or script, would that improve the chance, no?

Oh yeah, without a doubt. It's very easy to say 'I WANT CARAVAN MISSIONS WHERE YOU'RE GIVEN A CAR AND HAVE TO DRIVE IT ACROSS THE MAP', but you're not the one that has to code/write dialgoue/bug check, etc.

And then there's balance stuff, which is totally subjective. I think most pistols should cost 3AP to fire. The devs don't. Nothing you can do. It's nobody's fault, just how it goes.
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Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2011, 09:42:48 pm »

-1

-Ulrek-
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Michaelh139

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Re: Living Game Universe
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2011, 09:44:06 pm »

Extremely interesting but impossible.  I have had similar visions but there is no coder/scripter/etc no where near capable enough to code something like this.  Not in this century, or maybe even the next.
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