Questions and Answers 3D (read the first post before asking a question)

[Luther Blissett]

Ah, yes it does make more sense to me now. However I tried '~param 0 153 9' and '~run debug SetCritParam 0 153 9' both of which just made my character naked... I even re-downloaded the SDK and it didn't work, I think that I'll just get to know the current build for now. Thank you all for your help.

P.S. - Does the line 'Value 9 Root DisableSubset 0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 Attach Armor_APA.x' have anything to do with why it may not be working? Because the Power Armour didn't work either and it has the same subsets disabled.

Very odd. When I've got a bit more time (a week or two), I might upload "my working copy" of the SDK somewhere, i.e. whole client / server / FO3D SDK / my additions / alterations etc. That should help a bit with testing, for you and other people. I'd need to clear some of the rubbish / half broken test bits out first though - and I've got a lot of work on at the moment. If you don't see anything in a few weeks, then remind me

[Weasel]

Ok, thank you very much, I look forward to it. I'm sure it will help a lot! (and not only me!)

[Johnny Nuclear]

This 3D era is realy inevitable ? 

[Johnnybravo]

Considering there's still no ETA I wouldn't be that much worried about it.

It is still possible to make 3D look nearly the same as old 2D, and the fact is that more than 50% of computers have DX10+ hardware, so apart from laoding time increases not much should change.

However in current state it is really more or less useless, materials are ugly, animations are still missing and there's still no shader to change rendered models to Fallout pallette.

I'd be however disapointed if all of death animations were 3D (flame death, electrical death, burst death and plasma death are still not reproducable with resources that this community have).

Pokud by to bylo v podobnem stavu jako ted, tak to nebude Fallout ale lacina 200x hra :<.

[Grommok]

Ok, since all the work is community made, can i (with the proper permissions from the dev-mods-original autors) use them in a project of mine (both an eventual, even if VERY unwilling to be done in a short time, Van Buren Restoration Project, or some other single-player project)?

[Graf]

We esteem every author's opinion and generally following the creative commons licence. So, once everything is done, all work will be made public, unless some author forbids the use of their work somewhere except 2238 server. But I doubt that this will happen, so most likely you'll be able to use all work, by not forgetting to follow simple rules.

But if you ask me, I personally don't like the idea to giving out stuff to everyone, without of even speaking to person, and discussing where's he going to use it. Best is to give it out to people that actually need it, to be sure that it wouldn't be used in a projects, that doesn't deserve it. Well, it's just my opinion though.

[Surf]

We esteem every author's opinion and generally following the creative commons licence. So, once everything is done, all work will be made public, unless some author forbids the use of their work somewhere except 2238 server. But I doubt that this will happen, so most likely you'll be able to use all work, by not forgetting to follow simple rules.

Agreed on your points, but the bolded part won't work as all the files neccesary will be in the client and everyone can just take them without even saying anything (yes, there are people lacking respect doing something like that..) The original author in this case couldn't do anything to pretend it, so I hope most of the people here are good sports and actually ask before they take anything for their own stuff.

[Lexx]

Well, you have this problem with everything that was created and released.

[Grommok]

Well, thanks. Right now i wont do anything, i'm still lookin' fir all the needed tools (even if i've already got an engine, the FIFE, deveploved exacly for that kinda stuff). I'm gonna do this project with some friends, and the fact that we dont have to make all the models from scratch helps us alot.  Thanks for responding so fast and in a so precise way.

[Luther Blissett]

It may be worth discussing and making a decision on work ownership / commons licensing and applying it to all works made from this point, and checking if it can be applied to all previous (i.e. putting a notice to say "If you contribute a model, it is under this licence, unless you specifically say otherwise) - because there's going to be a lot of crossover on single characters.

Think if you have a "fat man" with a leather armour and an assault rifle - that might be :

Original model - Karpov
Adjusted model - Jotisz
Adjusted UV map - Luther Blissett
Original Skeleton - Karpov
Adjusted skeleton - ?
Animations - possibly several people
Skin - SmartCheetah
Hair - ?
Leather armour - Ztormi
Adjusted leather armour - Graf
Skeleton for original leather armour - Karpov
Adjusted skeleton for armour - ?
Shader effects - Johnnybravo
Improved post-shader textures - ?
Assault Rifle - Elmehdi & Gray
Weapon animations - Karpov
etc etc etc

I will have missed some off there, and of course there's all the people who have checked, managed, organised, uploaded, coordinated, suggested, advised, then there's those who made 2238 exist in the first place etc etc. Some of this info may be wrong, but as an example, you can see how you're going to end up with lots of people for the equivalent of a single repainted FO sprite.

So if I say "anything I've worked on is free for anyone to use", it's almost meaningless without agreement from the other 10-20 people - or if I was to say "I forbid my work to be used" for some reason, even though I'd only contributed the smallest amount to the final model, it could mean that it couldn't be used.

I think it'd be good for the Fallout / Fonline community as a whole if these did become available to everyone at some point (and personally, I'd love to see this stuff used in as many projects as possible) - though it'd be nice to be credited for this as well - though that also gives a further question of whether it would simply be "2238 3D Development Team", which would link to a full list of contributors, or whether each texture / model would be individually credited etc.

[LagMaster]

i have a question that will answer the dilema above

does anyone have legitimit softwhere that help them to create this models?

[Luther Blissett]

I can't see how this answers the above dilemma exactly, but regardless, in answer to your question - I personally believe you can get from "nothing" to "a model in game" using :

1)
Modelling : Wings3D (free, open source)
Texturing : Gimp (free, open source)
Rigging : Fragmotion (can be used continually in trial mode)

or
2)
Modelling and rigging : Blender (free, open source)
Texturing : Gimp (free, open source).

There are likely other options, of course. You'll also need notepad / gedit / notepad++ etc, as text editor.

Note that the rigging stuff (via #1) still needs a little further research and testing to make sure it's 100% compatible. I think the armour IS working, but the body type rigging needs a bit further work. I'll be putting a tutorial up about this method once I a) get it working properly and b) it's been checked to make sure it's correct.

It will be possible via Blender, but we'll need to prepare some template files first, and do some experimenting with methods and file formats.

[Graf]

I think most of us (if not everyone) are working with open-source/shareware/trial software. I'll point which the most popular of them:

- Autodesk 3ds Max, Maya, Softimage - Commercial, but it was made free for non-commercial use not so long ago;
- Blender - completely free modelling and animating software;
- Fragmosoft Fragmotion - free if you're following some simple rules;
- Wings 3D - completely free for any purpose;
- Google SketchUP - free (PRO version is commercial, though);
- Zbrush - commercial, but I've never seen anyone using it here;

- Adobe Photoshop - commercial, but trial can be used;
- GIMP - free;
- Paint.NET - free;
etc...

So as you can see, it's quite hard to find a graphics software, that should to be bought before use. If you want to say, that these works are created in a pirated software - you're wrong. If you want to say that all that work belongs to the software owners - you're wrong again. I think it should be quite clear now.

Update: well, I've pretty much said the same thing as Luther did.

[jangling]

seems like you guys are doing 3D for a few critters
Just curious as why critters need 3D models. (such as gecko or brahmin)

[Graf]

With the new 3D critters it would be much easier to add a new types of critters, e.g. bigger/smaller/different colored creatures. Plus to this, it just won't look right, if everyone else, except them will be 3D and they will stay 2D. Though don't expect them to appear right after the basic 3D is implemented. Almost every critter has a unique animation set and a model, which requires a bunch of work.