Other > Suggestions

Stealing not a crime?

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avv:

--- Quote from: Reginmund on February 13, 2011, 11:35:03 AM ---One question is supposing the thief is successful (e.g. stealing something while you try to trade and you know what is stolen, maybe you just had a handle of stuff not a lot) would said thief be unprotected or protected till you reported the crime to the sheriff.
--- End quote ---

It's a tricky part. IMO he shouldn't be, since the player knows who stole from him and should have the right to deal wasteland justice. But then again it would be hard for thieves to practice their art. Further features would be required to be implemented to allow thieves steal without being seen. Since at the moment you can pretty much always tell who stole from you.

Then again we could think of it this way: the cities most likely don't want random wastelanders taking justice in their own hands and would rather have crimes reported to the authorities.


--- Quote ---alts for them to steal from just to give them perma rep drop.
--- End quote ---

You wouldn't necessarily need alts since you can report the thief multiple times. I see nothing wrong with this, punishment must follow from crimes. Criminals shouldn't be tolareted inside cities where most people just want to mind their own bussiness.


--- Quote ---Also another though occurred what will prevent a thief from selling stuff on to regain rep to a positive value or would said thief incur the rep drop and no positive rep gain till returning stolen goods, paying fines/compensation? Or will the thief also incur poor relations with the merchants?
--- End quote ---

Selling stuff for rep is awful feature. I just sold some random crap in ncr and got 1k rep right away. The ways to receive +rep should be looked into more thoroughly.

chaosgoblyn:
It just seems dumb. In the Old West if someone was rifling through a cowboys packs whether he took anything or not you would still expect him to get shot down and noone really care. I feel like the law in the post-apocalypse would be closer to that than our modern era where even if someone tried to steal from you for some reason you can't just demolish them. Even so, I feel like if someone had their hands on my person without my consent I'd be within my rights to knock them out or something.

Badger:
I say we disable player versus player stealing until someone has a brainwave on how to make it an intelligent and interesting feature. Right now it's just a nuisance that irritates more players than it entertains.

Edit: I should elaborate. Stealing could easily have a role in the faction system - I can't imagine an NPC faction in the game that wouldn't have use for a someone able to obtain equipment or information without drawing attention. Its potential applications are sufficient without the alt-fest that is PvP stealing. I sympathise with thieves, but I really can't see how a PvP stealing system could exist that wasn't made easier by having a thief alt to support your main or anything similar.

HertogJan:
Stealing is fine the way it is, it's nerved enough.
The whole problem is in the fact that people assume guarded towns means you're protected against people who want to do bad things.
The whole player vs. character discussion is crap. You have to see things from your character's point of view, not you as player.

To "fix" some of the problems, some changes should be made:
- when losing protection, for whatever reason, the unprotected status should stick for 1-3 real-time hours. Perhaps the time could depend on reputation. For instance:  antipathy (-300 to -900) or worse means the max penalty of 3 hours, neutral means 2 hours, accepted (300 to 900) or better means 1 hour. This should be calculated after the reputation drop from the action that caused you to lose the protected status.
- unprotected people caused trouble for the npc faction. They should be shot on sight by the guards when they enter a town
- unprotected status should be expanded to encounters as well. As unprotected people caused trouble with that specific faction, they should be shot on sight in encounters with that faction as well
- only guards loot, no matter who shot who. Looters should be shot on sight, lose protection and get the same reputation penalty as thieves. People who lost stuff to PK in guarded towns like NCR should be able to buy it back from the sheriff at a fee of 25% of the value (guards have to make a living too). For thieving victims this would be nice too, but I think it will be very hard to implement. After all the items already changed owner
- getting rep back by selling stuff to traders should be limited to getting it up to -300 max. That's enough to be safe in encounters again, assuming you're not unprotected. The safe to shoot people status for idolized people should either disappear altogether or it should be limited to encounters only.

Currently when staying logged on, you keep your current reputation. There's no increase or decrease. When logged off your rep increases or decreases depending on it being below -200 or above +200. So basically bad rep encourages people to log off, good rep encourages people to stay on. Bad rep should encourage you to correct it, which means staying logged on and do some tasks or quests to improve it.

avv:

--- Quote from: HertogJan on February 15, 2011, 11:26:23 AM ---The whole player vs. character discussion is crap. You have to see things from your character's point of view, not you as player.
--- End quote ---

Then why is the player's point of view implemented in sneak? Player can't see sneaker if the char can't see him. But player can tell who stole from him even though the character can't.
Can't the principle of sneak be used on steal aswell? Players are able to spot and catch thieves the same way they can search for sneakers. But thief can also try to perform actions that help him not to get caught.

If players can't use their own awerness to affect ingame situations like stealing, it will just cause annoyance among players and lead to suicide-killing of thieves and third party methods that look even sillier than thieving.


--- Quote ---when losing protection, for whatever reason, the unprotected status should stick for 1-3 real-time hours. Perhaps the time could depend on reputation. For instance:  antipathy (-300 to -900) or worse means the max penalty of 3 hours, neutral means 2 hours, accepted (300 to 900) or better means 1 hour. This should be calculated after the reputation drop from the action that caused you to lose the protected status.
--- End quote ---

This is pretty necessary at least now since death means nothing to thieves and they just spam their presence in towns. The names of unprotected could be listed somewhere in town to help fending off wrongdoers.


--- Quote ---- unprotected people caused trouble for the npc faction. They should be shot on sight by the guards when they enter a town
--- End quote ---

They don't have to be shot on sight by the guards, they'd be just unprotected. It could be up to players to defend their home.


--- Quote ---- only guards loot, no matter who shot who. Looters should be shot on sight, lose protection and get the same reputation penalty as thieves. People who lost stuff to PK in guarded towns like NCR should be able to buy it back from the sheriff at a fee of 25% of the value (guards have to make a living too). For thieving victims this would be nice too, but I think it will be very hard to implement. After all the items already changed owner
--- End quote ---

Perhaps the server could "remember" what were stolen from who. When the thief was shot and looted, the victim needs to walk to the sheriff and name the lost items to get them back. It could work like lost and found.

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