We're playing raiders [...]
How comes that many people never saw a single person playing a raider proper?
What exactly are the goals of you "raiders"? Attacking people in towns for... what?
Raiders in the fallout games raided to.. survive, to get food, valuables or.. women,slaves etc.What do you "raid" exactly?
Of course I don't know the actual circumstances because I'm not involved there, but for players not joining this "war" it looks just... stupid.
We're playing raiders, we're fighting the NA who fancy themselves the sheriffs of the vastes, you might want to join their cause.
What do you propose instead - forcing veteran players to fight side by side with newbies? Replacing player driven politics with some bullshit "NCR vs Vault City" noone's going to care about? Nobody's going to enjoy that in the long run (because it's much more shallow than what we have now) and it's going to look more like a public Counter-Strike game than "well-structured PvP placed in a proper context".
Nah, youre just powergaming. The fact is that killing everyone everywhere and using trading and crafting alts happens to be the most powerful method to gain power in this game. By power I mean items. There's not much bigger goal. Besides, there's no way to really change the gameworld. You can keep blasting your enemies forever but nothing really changes. People die, stuff changes its owner and that's it.
The reason why I think npc factions should have bigger role is that players who don't want to be involved in intense player controlled clan game schemes is this:Being in clan has a social burden. You have this "feel of responsibility" when you're running an event with your gangmates. It's not proper to leave in the middle of enlonged fight because it could mean your faction could lose. Having npc factions players could enjoy being in a society without the responsibility to constantly work for the common good, or to wonder who's gonna have to mine more ore or take less stuff from cabinets. Neither you'd need to discuss the faction's policies because it has certain laws that everyone agrees on (to murder or not to murder). You could gain fame, wealth and power by being a respected member of that faction or just hang around there because of the security the city offers. Besides, you could pick the guys inside this npc faction whom you want to co-operate with.
I'm quite sure that everyone is somewhat interested in changing the game world, even thought they might not care about the glory of Vault City. But to change the bigger schemes it would have to happen through npc factions because only they got the manpower and materials. You think some random "The Westside Roughboys" gang could ever take over ncr? Ncr has 10k soldiers. Good luck.
But if you want to raid modoc, kill or enslave everyone there, it sounds plausible.
What does it mean to powergame? We're doing the same stuff raiders did in FO2, only we're doing it in a more efficient manner because we're, you know, humans and this is a player driven environment.
And what do you mean by changing the gameworld? There were at least 3 historical events that basically reshaped the wasteland po-wipe:- BBS domination- NA was formed- DA was formed... and all of these influenced basically EVERYONE including the NCR dwellers whether they have the honesty to admit it or not. The fact that one side is blasting the other more, hence gathering more stuff is enough to change the gameworld and actually have a lot of influence on the towns the given faction choses to camp.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somehow not many people are really willing to enjoy their membership in the Enclave or the Vault City. Maybe because, you know, having your own faction that is actually 100% player driven instead of being a collection of repetitive scripts is, you know, more fun That's why best you could hope for in the NCR is stirring up the slums for a few minutes. It's already there. As for changing the bigger schemes - as you've said, those factions are a) npc driven, b) have no business in open military confrontation and c) too big to be influenced by some random wasteland dudes.That's why TC is restricted to the smaller towns.
Yeah right. Being player driven enviroment alone changes all your goals. I bet that you're just doing everything that's possible, rather than doing what raiders would do. If you could force everyone in the game to carry an apple on their primary slot and worship brahmins, you'd do it just out of interest. Killing people and taking their stuff just happens to be the most interesting way to interact with other players right now.
I don't know a single DA member, let alone NA. I don't even know which faction member you are. From my point of view the only influence the gangs seem to have on the game world is to make the unguarded towns unsafe, fill the worldmap with caravan cars and occasionally try to stir up some confusion in guarded towns. Basically none of the unguarded towns have something so important that a player has to visit them more than once, so camping there doesn't have such a big impact on the game world.
By changing the world I mean simply changing something of the gameworld towards your own favour. For example right now there's no way to defeat or conquer anyone for extended time period. If you're a gang who decides to establish their own rules and laws in Den, they may do it for 8 hours in row but when they leave its all for nothing. There's no way to declare that you have gained a significant checkpoint in the timeline of the server. I would call it an achievement if some group could establish their own city in the middle of all this chaos.
Players could choose the factions whiches rules suit them best. Raiders, slavers and New Reno gangs would be closest to total anarcy. NCR rangers and brotherhood would be the wasteland police, but with rules that prevent cruelty towards innocents. Because players that are fans of total anarchy would basically destroy the whole world if they could, their factions have to have limited power.
There's nowhere near clear picture how exactly this whole npc faction system could work. There's no telling yet how and how much players should be allowed to change the npc faction's policy or extend its influence over the wasteland. But it certainly doesn't have to be repetitive scripts. Maybe a player could become the general of vault city's security forces, the president of ncr or the leader of raiders. He would have to make decisions that make the faction stronger, not fuck it up.
However I do admit that freedom to have your own gang and being part of its conquest over the gameworld is fascinating. This fascination is the engine that runs many mmo games but in those games there are always rules, boundaries and common goals which all the gangs follow or they perish or fail have any influence.
They have the cash and having cash gives a lot of benefits - along with the possible equipment gains when your faction wins it's all well worth it. The unguarded towns are unsafe because fighting has been quite fierce lately. Before that stage, DA was winning so you couldn't really expect to feel safe there.
That's because no side has gained an advantage significant enough to establish their rule. You could defeat or conquer anyone if you had enough people and stuff to outclass them.
Yeah, but it's more about choosing your own companions than about the groups' mindset. I mean, if I were a member of Mordinos I'd to have to deal with other Mordinos even if I didn't like them. That way those factions would have simply no coherence and esprit the corps if you will, which is what makes the current gang scene so awesome to participate in.
There's no way NPC factions could be both open and player governed. It'd eventually lead to the towns becoming very hermetic communities and new players would be even more screwed than they are now. Besides, aside from the label - what different would being VC general be from being a gangleader right now? The only REAL difference would be a very limited faction number which never is a good thing.
There are rules (see TC system and the guarded towns are) and there are unwritten rules (make your fights give you economic profit instead of loss, choose your friends carefully, some tactical stuff which changes from town to town etc.). It's all there, you're barking up the wrong tree right now.
Nice_Boat, you're absolutely mistaken if you think the current state of PVP doesnt affect the way others play. All of the cities are different; there are some crucial low-tier quests in Modoc and the north towns, and all the PVP shit really interferes with that. Remember, YOU may not have use for those NPCs in those towns but I'd say almost all of the starting players will. The suggestion in this thread is atleast aimed at letting more people play the way they want instead of mob rule in an unbalanced beta win out. You have no sense of decency, if you consider new players and decide "my actions / our actions as PVPers in the north don't interfere with game flow or new players". The south is nothing like the north, from a newbies perspective there's nothing to really help a player out down there (after the initial, unrepeatable quests have been done).
And you're saying that the obvious solution is moving PvP out of the towns to some shitty, boring flatlands
Who said anything about flatlands? Why not a Sierra attack/defense? The Cathedral? The Stables? Mariposa? Ghost Farm? Golgotha? Navarro? Toxic Caves? Vault 15? Hell, maybe even places that don't exist yet. Maybe maps cannibalised over from other stuff, like the Restoration Project or Fan Made Fallout.
