Other > Suggestions
Pickpocketing/Tagging
igooor:
Thieves are arritating, and of course skill should be reworked.
First of all npc that protect town should kill failed thieves - cos it is logical. If so only high skilled thieves would make often attempts to stole smth from you when you see them and now that they are thieves. And also should be applied feature that prevent using steal skill while weakness, so they should treat themselves of wait 5 min.
Thieves should work unnoticed not like now tracing you so you should every 5 sec move to prevent stealing, thats not normal and sometimes really annoying. Sometimes thieves are staying near trader - so you have no chances to trade - cos when you begin talking you have only 4 second before a thief will make his new attempt for stealing.
HertogJan:
Thieves aren't irritating as long as people don't harass the skill for grieving purposes.
Which unfortunately happens a lot.
NPCs kill failed thieves if they failed stealing from them.
For instance if I fail stealing from the farmer in NCR the guards will shoot me.
IMO guards shoot ignore failed thieves unless the victim is a member of their faction.
In which case it should work like with failed stealing from npc and the thief should be shot on the spot.
Note that there's a difference between a failed steal and a successful steal but with losing protection.
Even low skilled thieves will attempt stealing, although I don't understand why.
All it does is cause their reputation to be really bad when their skill is finally high enough.
I don't understand the connection between stealing and being weak.
I can use all other skills when I'm weak, why should steal be an exception?
Steal has a 30 seconds cooldown.
During the cooldown you can't use the skill.
Every 5 seconds means someone is abusing the animation to harass you.
Some thieves at a trader are actually trading, although some people fail to understand that.
Personally I have some ethics as a thief, although I'm part of a minority with that.
Every red name, every cyrillic named player, every PK, every tent follower, every racist and everyone acting like an ass is a target.
For instance the guy harassing me while trading in the Hub old town yesterday made himself a target.
He tried to push me out of range to trade himself without having to wait.
Although I had over 10k of stuff in my inventory I stole from him.
I hope he understands he has to be patient and well mannered next time.
Stay away from NCR and you avoid at least 80% of all thieves.
avv:
--- Quote from: HertogJan on December 20, 2010, 02:24:04 PM ---Wasteland justice can only be dealt when the thief is caught in the act.
--- End quote ---
The point was that alert players cannot increase their odds to catch a thief no matter what they do.
--- Quote ---Also sneaking wouldn't be an option, it's useless in shops and crowds.
--- End quote ---
You'd only need to be invisible to your target. There's rarely so tight crowds in fonline. People tend to position themselves rather loosely. Surely a spotting formula could be arranged to represent guards and players having hard time to notice a thievery that happens when there's many chars in the line of sight. Then a skilled thief would need to check which character has least spectators but most other characters around it to disrupt the spectator's alertness. You couldn't just steal from anyone any time which should be pretty obvious, thats why you'd have to keep constant watch who would be the most optimal target.
--- Quote ---Thieves hide in plain sight in crowds as there's less chance to get noticed.
Again, the only reason it's obvious is the isometric view you have and your character doesn't have.
--- End quote ---
That can be worked too. I have no idea why we can see so far to our sides and behind. Because we hear? Well we shouldn't be able to hear what someone looks like or what his name is. Otherwise should hear behind walls aswell. Less visibility to the flanks and rear would actually be much more interesting in pvp too.
It would be totally okay to not to see a sneaking dude behind me at all.
If the crowded field of view system was also added, players would have to think about where to position their chars. Some areas could be safer (shops and quest zones) but they could become crowded and thus unsafe.
So if you want 100% succesful steal, it'd be a guy who has his back turned against you and has no eyes laid upon him.
--- Quote ---As for challenge, it would be more likely to go the way of con artists.
1 distracts you, the 2nd steals from you.
Not a change, as you can still see it with your isometric view, which goes for every "solution".
--- End quote ---
Indeed. If additional chars reduced the spectator's alertness, it would be encouraged to have a pickpocket-posse who surrounds the victim and one performs the stealing act.
HertogJan:
--- Quote from: avv on December 20, 2010, 03:53:56 PM ---The point was that alert players cannot increase their odds to catch a thief no matter what they do.
--- End quote ---
They already have a 100% chance not to be stolen from if they're alert.
--- Quote from: avv on December 20, 2010, 03:53:56 PM ---You'd only need to be invisible to your target. There's rarely so tight crowds in fonline. People tend to position themselves rather loosely. Surely a spotting formula could be arranged to represent guards and players having hard time to notice a thievery that happens when there's many chars in the line of sight. Then a skilled thief would need to check which character has least spectators but most other characters around it to disrupt the spectator's alertness. You couldn't just steal from anyone any time which should be pretty obvious, thats why you'd have to keep constant watch who would be the most optimal target.
--- End quote ---
That's nerving a skill to a level it's unworkable.
--- Quote from: avv on December 20, 2010, 03:53:56 PM ---That can be worked too. I have no idea why we can see so far to our sides and behind. Because we hear? Well we shouldn't be able to hear what someone looks like or what his name is. Otherwise should hear behind walls aswell. Less visibility to the flanks and rear would actually be much more interesting in pvp too.
It would be totally okay to not to see a sneaking dude behind me at all.
If the crowded field of view system was also added, players would have to think about where to position their chars. Some areas could be safer (shops and quest zones) but they could become crowded and thus unsafe.
So if you want 100% succesful steal, it'd be a guy who has his back turned against you and has no eyes laid upon him.
--- End quote ---
It's probably due to the isometric view.
It would indeed be interesting if your character has a lesser sight from the sides and none from the back.
Although that should be compensated a bit by hearing and smell, so an x amount of hexes or something like that.
Nicer would be just a message you heared something behind you.
In this game every area is unsafe.
Steal skill is already designed in such a way you don't have 100% success rate and it shouldn't be changed to it.
--- Quote from: avv on December 20, 2010, 03:53:56 PM ---Indeed. If additional chars reduced the spectator's alertness, it would be encouraged to have a pickpocket-posse who surrounds the victim and one performs the stealing act.
--- End quote ---
We already had similar things with groups of thieves blocking shop exits.
It's not something you want and it's just as lame as shoot and loot teams.
avv:
--- Quote from: HertogJan on December 20, 2010, 09:52:17 PM ---They already have a 100% chance not to be stolen from if they're alert.
--- End quote ---
I meant catching, not preventing getting stolen from. Right now there's no way to catch a thief and make him pay for his crime attempts. Surely he might randomly fail but that's not up to the victim.
--- Quote ---That's nerving a skill to a level it's unworkable.
--- End quote ---
Not if done well. It takes some modifications to line of sight so that it's not a quadrangle where the char is placed near one corner but a slice of sector laid in front of him. That would make figuring out lines of sight easier because no matter the perception, nobody would actually see further to his side and rear. It'd be like a puzzle to figure out which char has least eyes on him but most distraction around. You want to beat players? Then you need to outsmart them. Find the victim who has positioned himself badly. Smart players wouldn't usually be possible to be stolen from, that's okay.
--- Quote ---Steal skill is already designed in such a way you don't have 100% success rate and it shouldn't be changed to it.
--- End quote ---
You know what's very bad feature in games? When you plan things precisely perfectly but it fails because there's 0,01% chance to fail due to the fact the game is based on dice rolls. I see no reason why you couldn't work youself 100% success rate if you did everything right and your victim didn't do anything to counter you. Your victim doesn't deserve even that 0,01% chance if he didn't work for it. Only npcs deserve a small defensive success chance because they are slaves to their script.
--- Quote from: HertogJan on December 20, 2010, 09:52:17 PM ---We already had similar things with groups of thieves blocking shop exits.
It's not something you want and it's just as lame as shoot and loot teams.
--- End quote ---
That's how thieves work in reality, and in fonline it'd be called teamwork which deserves some credit. There wouldn't be anything wrong with it because it's activity faithful to the game world unlike shoot'n'loot or blocking doorways. So if something like that is implemented, counter measures usable by victims must follow ofcourse. It's not i'd like some undefeatble pickpocket mob to roam every town.
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